klondikekid Treg

[UAofE]

For a bike sized application, you don't need much of a bypass. Even a lawn mower sized throttle body would be plenty. The supercharger will still be moving air, you just want to let the pressure equalize across it.

[klondikekid]

That's another good point UAofE, smaller and lighter makes sense, just like the turbo bypass 1" or so just enough to kill the boost, thx again, any other thoughts? The super is aprox. 2 weeks away or so, then still have to hang it before starting the plumbing, Any thoughts on a blow off valve, so when the throttle is backed off quickly..well you know what I mean..

[klondikekid]

I think I can make this small throttle body work, I'd like to trim some of the excess flanges and streamline it a bit, make a way to mount it so it's not hanging off the hose, and figure how to add the vacuum pot and linkage, and maybe get a friend that is a aluminum welder to put a 1" lip to attach the hose on the other end, carefully so as not to warp it/mess it up. I just need to make sure the butterfly will close air tight before I get going on this path.

[klondikekid]

I'm wondering if something like this would be better, it's "adjustable" and can work both ways, one way vacuum opens it, the other way boost pushes it open. I'll have to study the options. 1 1/2" fittings There is simpler and fancier ones, this is the latter

[klondikekid]

Supercharger showed up today, got a few things I have to do this weekend, but I hope to start removing my exhaust pipe off the turbo, and rad hoses, to make room for the super, and start figuring out mounting brackets for it. I'll be sure to post pics as I go...just for inspiration..and laughs.

[klondikekid]

Here's the blow off that I'm going to use, it's adjustable, I already have everything out of the way so tomorrow I can start making the mounting brackets for the supercharger, and hopefully have it mounted by tomorrow night, been taking pics, I'll post tomorrow night. I also have a thread on Chop Cult, " Turbo diesel harley was it a good idea? "

[klondikekid]

Got hung up on plumbing for a bit here, opinions are like ass***** so there's is a million reasons to do this plumbing one way or the other, I see on the interweb, most of these opinions come from people who have never done it, or any forced induction setups, and are very sure why one way won't work and another will, talking to engine builders that have done this and know what works for high reving gas or low reving diesel sure helped, I have been looking at all the diffrent ways to plumb this supercharger/turbo, parallel or series or compound, long story short, I'm going to go compound, supercharger blowing into turbo in that order, without bypass or fancy valves. The super is mounted, just got all the plumbing hoses and s/s clamps, need to fit a belt. I'm moving forward again. Twincharging is getting more attention lately, expect to see a lot more people doing it, everyone has the same questions for plumbing, just not a lot of straight answers.

[UAofE]

supercharger blowing into turbo in that order, without bypass or fancy valves.

Thats the worst possible way to use any supercharger.
You're limiting the turbo's airflow and pressure ratio, not removing the parasitic loss form the supercharger when the turbo is working, the supercharger will have to be increased in size/weight to flow enough air for the turbo, changing boost pressure will require pulley changes as the turbo will choked if you try to increase flow with it, and the turbo will have zero ability to adapt/compensate for altitude changes (which means as little as 1000ft change in elevation will have a noticeable reduction of your boost pressure and increase in turbo inefficiency/drive pressure).
In other words, you'll be stressing the hell out of the engine to make less power (at the wheel) than you would with a turbo alone.

You don't need "fancy valves" to do it right (turbo blowing into supercharger). All you need is a passive relief valve to recirculate pressure to the supercharger inlet to limit total pressure ratio.

http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Valve-13-2 ... B008837VGW

[gearhead1951]

Ever military diesel I have ever seen that ran both Had the turbo feeding the engine driven supercharger ! For the GM 2 strokers that means the supercharger instantly provides the initial psi needed for the engine to scavenge and the turbo increases the psi BEFORE the engine driven 'charger which greatly increases the final psi in the air box !

[klondikekid]

My last post said no fancy bypass, that's not true, I'll be have the super ch. blowing into turbo with a reed valve between the two so that if the turbo has any problem pulling air thru the super (just in case) it can pull it thru the reed valve,connected to the air cleaner, and when the super is making pressure at low rpms, it won't be able to push out past the reed/one way valve, only thru the turbo, I doubt the superchager would be a restriction, even sitting still/not turning air blows thru freely, add the fact that the super will be running at engine speed, and if there is nothing to push the air against,eg. turbo is taking over and moving more air than the super, then the super is just freewheeling. I have been told that at my low RPM's I shouldn't have any breathing problems,thru the super. I've seen the military set ups with the turbo sitting right on top of the super charger that works too, but then VW diesels has super into turbo, so there is not really a wrong or right way of doing it, i don't think, it's a matter of how it's set up, and what a person is trying to do, and on what eg. racing, towing, gas or diesel, even the 2 stroke diesels are set up that way for a reason. here's some light reading on the subject. Let's hear more on this subject, google around for info, everyone has a different opinion out there on this subject, I will be making changes to the set up later if need be. I will post some pics when I find time soon, and post performance results as well. Let's here hear some idea's...

[klondikekid]

Wikipedia twincharging, basic but informative, good start to the subject

[16VGTIDave]

Be aware that if the turbo has to pull too hard, the compressor may surge - create a supersonic shockwave. Do this too many times and the turbo will fail. Often catastrophically. Or so I was taught in aero engines courses 20 some years ago...

[klondikekid]

Yes, many variables, I do have adjustable blow off valves like in the picture, if need be. Here's food for thought, my sister has a supercharged Pontiac bonnieville, older one, the supercharger belt and tensioner took a crap 3 years ago, she still drives the s**t out of it everyday town and highway, 0 maintainence, no problems. I know... how could anyone drive a supercharged anything without fixing the belt ?? so air is being sucked thru the sitting dead super, I drove it like that and it just feels like, no super, not bad, just no super.

[BoxerOtto]

do it, it sounds awsome, if someone wants to dispute what your doing then ask them where their machine is with a working set up. you seem to have done lots of research go for it, and catalog your findings, so you can make changes as needed to optimise power and reliability. your on the road to boosted enlightenment, only you know the specifics of your machine and what it will withstand. can't wait to hear some results.

[gearhead1951]

About the GM 2 strokers , The super charger is a positive displacement roots type and that might be why it is AFTER the turbo !!

[UAofE]

it can pull it thru the reed valve

Thats choking the turbo by pulling a vacuum at its inlet. That increases its compressor pressure ratio and raises the drive pressure needed to operate it.

VW diesels has super into turbo

No they didn't. The only VW to use a supercharger and turbo was a 1.4L gasser.

[UAofE]

so air is being sucked thru the sitting dead super

Bypass valve.

[klondikekid]

Two stroke engines use reed valves, without starving the engine of air/fuel, it doesn't take much to pull air thru reeds, I can't see that harming or affecting turbo performance.
The pontiac, with the super belt off the engine/computer knows to have the bypass valve open all the time? so the engine can run. I think that bypass pictured would be for letting off too much boost maybe? My little roots type supercharger for my bike, I can pick it up and blow thru it with NO resistance, while NOT turning, so would that change while it's spinning at speed when installed and plumbed in? Roots superchargers only build pressure after the super when there is resistance. Oops my mistake VW... twincharged is gas, but still it's a super blowing into turbo. I'm trying to do my twin charge as simple/lightest as possible, I'm sure i'll have to change some things as I go, I look around and see people have done it a few diffrent ways most of them work worked. PS The 2 stroke diesels NEED the supercharger to work, the two stroke diesel is a different beast, you'll have to read up on it,my typing skills are slow and my words are few.

[klondikekid]

[UAofE]

Two stroke engines use reed valves, without starving the engine of air/fuel

And we all know they are renowned for their efficiency and low emissions....

I can pick it up and blow thru it with NO resistance, while NOT turning, so would that change while it's spinning at speed when installed and plumbed in?

No.
A Human can exhale at about 21cfm, equivalent to you engine 1300rpm with no boost (1000rpm with 5psi).
http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/ ... utyCycle=0

Secondly, supercharger lobes expand with speed and heat, effectively eliminating any gaps when built/adjusted correctly. Just as engine pistons expand and blowby goes down as the engine warms.

twincharged is gas, but still it's a super blowing into turbo.

Controlled by a modern computer with a full bypass valve.

I'm trying to do my twin charge as simple/lightest as possible

You've already got a bypass valve planned into your system....

[klondikekid]

It's been awhile since my last update, seems like something might have changed here with down loading pictures? tried to load as normal but no go, tried a few other things but still won't load , site says invalid ? I'll get the wife to figure it out for me, she works in a office all day. Supercharger is all finished being installed, just waiting for a smaller pulley, I only have 2.5psi would be nice to be around 6-8 max, also finished belt guard, had to re make therear brake pedal, puts it in a more comfortable position, also changed exhaust routing to clear super plumbing, and changed heat wrap over with 1" black, also changed over to electric bosch aux water pump, and hooked up water cooling lines for the turbo using AN fittings and braided lines The plumbing looks cool, turbo on one side super on the other. Pictures coming as soon as I can get then posted. any suggestions?

[BoxerOtto]

cool set up, can't wait to see it, if your still up for a visit in july. i cant seem to load pictures either. ive made a few changes always looking to keep improving the 418. still working out a viable nozzle for water/meth set up, but getting there i think. will post more results when it all comes together, hopefully it will be before the island trip. more boost is always better.

[klondikekid]

I'm usually around, just give me a heads up when your going to be out this way, I'll give you a tour of the chrome shop too when your here, summers finally here lets ride.

[BoxerOtto]

i will give you some warning a little closer to the time of departure, but so far its still looking like a go.i still cant post pictures the same way as before. not sure about that. it will be awsome to see the chrome shop as it seems like its becoming a disappearing art. i hope you guys stay busy and make a decent living at it.our summer has finally made it so ya time to put a few miles on, we just have to keep the fires under control around here.

[klondikekid]

Sounds good, I find I can't load pictures the same any more myself, I mailed the site a asked for help, so if I figure it out I'll post it. The fires in Fort Mac got my wife's brother's house and truck, and fire season is just starting.

[Stuart]

Send the picture to me via the same admin email you used earlier & I'll try & get it up for you


Stuart

[BoxerOtto]

I sent you a private message.

[BoxerOtto]

Are you road legal now? How much of a trek would it be to checkout the old observatory?

[klondikekid]

Road legal?? it's so close I can taste it, after seeing boxerOtto's cool bike this summer, very much outside the box,I liked the transmission idea the best, and everything worked very nicely, we did a short road trip, I rode my Suzuki GT750 water buffalo and boxer's diesel ran awsome, we got talking about intercoolers and water injection for intake cooling, as boxer runs a supercharger with water injection to combat heat issues fom the super, so I added a intercooler, nice unit from bell intercoolers. been awhile since my last up date,I'll fill in some blanks later. here's some recent pics.

[BoxerOtto]

Looks awesome, I take it you got the trans working properly now. A little extra plumbing but well worth it. I wish I could get a chance to come visit again, but probably won't happen for a while.Did you get the little Enfield running for your neighbor? I haven't quite got my new intercooler installed yet, just short on time right now. But I should have her up and running again for next riding season. Are you still trying to get road legal for this year? Your weather must still be good enough to ride for a while. how did you add a picture of a board track racer in that other post? How did you add pictures to your post? I haven't tried in a while, is it working just by adding attachments again?