Turboed Norwegian Enfield

[pietenpol2002]

Interesting piece of work here. Unfortunately there was little text attached, but I have the translated version of it below. I do wonder whether the use of an Audi turbo suggest that it was too big to produce sufficient boost. The absence of a plenum/accumulator would also seem to problematic for a single. He clearly went to some effort to be certain the turbo was supplied with adequate oil.

Here's the text.

Royal Enfield with its own built turbo feed from Audi car. . Turbo gave around 1 / 2 kg pressure, but according to owner went Enfield better without the turbo. The red brannslukningsaparatet acted as extra oil system.

Ron

[TimppaX]

nice work

For those who don´t understand: brannslukningsaparatet = fire extinguisher

[sbrumby]

Just a general question here, does a tuboed engine the same base as a none turboed have the same injectors and pump? Because if the ansewer is no then are the people changeing the injectors and pump after they have fitted a turbo?

[TedV]

some have the same, or very little difference. The extra air is for better emisions, less smoke, not so much for lots of extra power.

most have differences between normal and turbo.

[Diesel Dave]

So the belt drive is to a seperate oil pump and the fire extinguisher is it's additional oil tank - ingenious.

Turbo's huge for a little 400cc single.

Sam the usual change for adding a turbo is to increase the break pressures in the injectors by about 10% - more than this is usually tricky getting a jerk pump to operate - you can pressurise in bound fuel supply with a higher pressure pump rather that gravity feed and this will help too.

Injector part numbers for the Lombardini LDW series are the same for Turbo and non-turbo models and only 130-145 bar pressure.

Dave

[mark_in_manchester]

Comparing Daihatsu Charade Turbo (which I have) vs non-turbo (which I've seen / have a manual), the injector pump for turbo version has a diaphragm actuator on top which is supplied with intake plenum pressure. I don't know whether this is used to vary timing, or something else - I'd be interested if anyone knows.
Mark

[Diesel Dave]

Now that is interesting....

It looks like a fuel pressure balancer so that when intake boost is present then injection pressure rises also.

Very cool, keeps costs & wear down by keepin injection pressures reasonable and only rise when needed and balanced against additional combustion chamber air pressure.

Dave

[Nanko]

Comparing Daihatsu Charade Turbo (which I have) vs non-turbo (which I've seen / have a manual), the injector pump for turbo version has a diaphragm actuator on top which is supplied with intake plenum pressure. I don't know whether this is used to vary timing, or something else - I'd be interested if anyone knows.
Mark

That is an overfuelling device , more turbo pressure , more fuel

[Crazymanneil]

I'm with Nanko. Same thing on the early vw TDI's with mechanical axial distributer pump injection (no ECU). Increases fuelling by increasing injection duration and possibly advance too (not sure). Extra fuel compensates for the extra air. The Bosch ones on the VW's were dead easy to play with too so you could wind up the fuel for smoke and power. Alas we need computers and expensive software to do the same thing on modern engines.

n

[mark_in_manchester]

Thanks, that's interesting. There's no obvious adjustment on the Japanese injector pump...perhaps I could 'T' off the tube between plenum and actuator, and insert the free end somehere...'blow (fart) here to go faster'...

[Crazymanneil]

Is there adjuster screws on the pump? Its best to have the engine running standard and all ok before thinking about tweaking anything too.

N

[Nanko]

Going a bit off topic now , but if your japanese pump
is a bosch clone , this: http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_p ... wer_ve.htm
may help to adjust few things
But I agree with Neil , be carefull
Overfueling can cause damage !

[Crazymanneil]

Exhaust gas temperature probe is a good first port of call if you are gonna start tweaking but you really are your own warranty here. There's a fair bit to consider when tweaking. As Nanko says it can easily cause damage. Personally for the effort in getting a diesel engine into a bike it could be painful if you had to find another one...

N

[pietenpol2002]

It has been mentioned various times here that the Yanmar clones and Greaves tend to be somewhat overfueled from the factory to accommodate the poor quality fuel in their country of origin (typically India or China). If so, does that suggest that they could tolerate a bar or 2 of boost without having to tamper with the fuel supply?

Ron

[TedV]

If you have excess fuel, as seen by smoke, you can add a small turbo and with more air it will not smoke as much when you get into boost. VW added a turbo to their 1.6 normal asperated IDI and called it the Eco-diesel(the old 80's VW's were not TDI, IDI had prechambers) It had the same pump as the normal asperated 1.6 without boost enrichment, but they put a turbo on it to cut down on smoke and be a bit more eco-friendly.

The question I'm wondering is if the little yanclone could stand the extra cylinder presures and not break...??? without more fuel or proper sized little turbo, you might not make too much boost.

[pietenpol2002]

In the interest of simplicity I would be considering a supercharger. I have the choice of 2 small ones sitting in the shop that I'd love to try but would hope to tap the collective wisdom available here before I spend the time. Adjusting needed boost is simply done by changing out pulleys to alter ratios. The Yanclones ability to withstand the additional forces is a valid concern. I figured I'd just wrap my legs with flak vests in anticipation of the big sneeze.

[coachgeo]

In the interest of simplicity I would be considering a supercharger..... I figured I'd just wrap my legs with flak vests in anticipation of the big sneeze.

what are we looking at in your picture? Not sure what it is that sneezed side of it's nostral out. Looks like a small tranny in the grass orrr??

[mark_in_manchester]

Going back up this thread a bit -
Nanko, thanks for the website link on inj pump fiddles. I don't intend to do it - but as I know bugger all about what is happening inside inj pump, then the reading is very welcome.

As things are, I wonder how long Ural final drive / gearbox will tolerate going from 35bhp on original engine, to 50+ on Daihatsu turbo. Easy with that right hand...

cheers
Mark

[albertaphil]

Regarding injection pump modifications for turboed engines...the aneroid on top of the pump of a VW or numerous other turbo diesels is really only for one thing; smoke reduction. That is, within limits you can turn the screw up on a pump without an "enricher" and it will run your turbo just fine, but until your boost comes up, you'll make a James Bond smoke screen. The dealie on top of the pump only adds the extra fuel you need to make power when the air is getting into the engine to make power instead of smoke. If you have ever seen the old Mack Thermodyne engines come around a corner and leave a black trail with every shift until the boost comes up, you'll know what I mean.

That being said, not every injection pump can be adjusted to deliver the fuel need to make the power that a particular engine is capable of producing with a given turbo setup. My uncle turboed the 2.2L Isuzu diesel in a 1984 Chev S-10 pickup. The turbo helped for sure, but it wasn't possible to adjust the pump up to make the boost that the engine could handle (presumably).

On my Ruggerini MD151 (654cc) there is a big old screw with a locknut right on the side of the block to adjust the fuel. The workshop manual says that under full load the engine should make a light smoke, and to adjust the screw accordingly. Just that simple. If I were to turbo the engine, I would simply turn that up (a little), but I know that it would make much more smoke until the boost came up...another reason to go with a CVT that doesn't require gear changes and the associated loss of boost. Actually, the extended turbo lag that I would expect from a small single cylinder would be a great reason to run a CVT, but that's another thread...

Cheers,
Phil

[jonnyr48]

hey phil, have you considered turbo'ing the MD151? since it copes with being upped to 850cc, i presume it might cope ok with a fair old boost??? anybody else got any ideas on this?
cheers, jonny

[albertaphil]

Johnny, you better believe I have considered turboing the MD...but maybe I'll just get it on the road first. It sounds like you might know more about the MDs than I do. I know that the 191 is slightly heavier, and about an inch taller and an inch wider. I guess I've been assuming that many of the internal parts are different, but I really don't know jack squat. What do you know about these engines?

Phil

[jonnyr48]

not much more unfortunately - if there are any rugger/lombardini experts out there please chip in! i'm assuming the 650 and 850 engines are virtually the same, but 650 has steel block and 850 seem to be ally.virtually the same weight and fuel use figures, which implies they share most of the same internals? if anybody knows the exact differences i'd like to find out what they are?
cheers jonny

[dieselbikin]

I’m currently building my own version of a “Gator” supercharger. I’ve got the drive system installed, but still finishing up the compressor. Since I have a CVT, my current plan is to:

1. Set blower drive ratio to create 5 psi @3600 rpm.
2. Turn out “fuel bolt” until very light smoke under load.

I have replaced the original fuel rack adjusting bolt with a regular bolt, so the fuel delivery does not increase under load. The engine is pretty much all ways under load within a very narrow rpm range so I hope this will be sufficient.

[albertaphil]

Dieselbikin, are you saying that you removed or bypassed the full-range governor? In a motorcycle, I would prefer that an engine didn't have a governor (except for a high idle limit.) Caterpillar and Mack truck engines have full range governors whereas Cummins just have rev limiters. With a gear transmission, driving an engine with a full-range governor should theoretically be like having a cruise control, as the governor adds fuel to maintain a constant rpm at a given throttle setting, though in practice one still has to move the pedal to maintain a constant speed.

What is the theory behind "not adding fuel under load"?

Phil