I went to HDT again!

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:31 am

While on my way to a routine Doctor's appointment at our local VA clinic in Victorville, I drove over to HDT. I guess there was a 20-50 car pile-up on I-15 in Cajon Pass this morning and my Doctor was stuck in the back up so I had a wait. So in waiting I thought to drive over to HDT? It's only a mile or two away and I wanted to visit a couple of venders in the area. Please note, HDT 's facility is located farther up E, past G Ave. and is the second set of buildings on the right (group of three), I don' know why Mapquest shows another location on E? See: http://tinyurl.com/l6c36z

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-cajon ... 8393.story

What a site I saw, several (most) of the doors were open, and it's not a big place. I see a couple of either restored or modified jeeps stacked on lifts, a custom truck that’s being worked on (one of the employees trucks, we had talked before),I did see a truck with TheBilletKing.com painted on the tail gate ( http://www.f1engineering.com/ ), and NO, I said NO motorcycles.

I hope others will stop by HDT/F1 engineering/Billet Kings to say hello and give them your support, get a tour maybe.

Dave

Erik EVA Products · Post by **Erik EVA Products** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:18 pm

Hallo Dave,

you went to HDT................
is that from:
went about
went after
went against
went ahead
went along

thanks for your info. however there is much missing

why / what / how /
Why didn't you have a chat ? or are you from another "church"..
I am really interested in real info.

The idea seemd ok at first but would it be businesswise ok. ?

How can we get more info on the HDT project ?
Are you able to call them or should i contact my US miltary contact called Osama who is living in a small dutch village and sells fish

....

For real, i could be able to provide them with help if needed but contact and info would be best to receive.

Regards

Erik
Holland

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:00 am

Erik EVA Products wrote:
For real, i could be able to provide them with help if needed but contact and info would be best to receive.

Regards

Erik
Holland

Yes I went to HDT again Erik, I drove in, and then drove out, and I seem to be the only one that questions HDT’s ethics. I'm not welcome at HDT maybe; I’ve been 5-6 times, same old Bullshit! I can see thru HDT’s smoke screen. Seems everyone else just reads the wonderful BS stories in magazines about HDT’s wonder bike. Look, every magazine write up on the HDT is positive because there is nothing to fear as the HDT's don't work (no fear), I can see your bike works from here in SoCal just by the photos. Your bike got bad reviews because you’re the competition and your Track bike works, does it not?.

I'm not nieve, my military job's civilian code printed on my DD214 is 693.261 with an open suffix, I trained on B-52's and worked on C5 Galaxy’s. see: http://www.occupationalinfo.org/62/621281030.html I kinda maybe might know what I'm looking at. Not tooting my own horn, just have the proof that I can speak with some athority.

HDT (Fred Hayes) doesn’t want help, they want investor’s money.

Do the HDT's run???, It's an engineering disaster. It might run, but only for a very short period of time. Take any small gas engine, make it a diesel engine now displacing 670cc, put a small flywheel mass on it, a multi-piece press together crankshaft, toss on a hemi head, canted valve gas combustion chamber with a pre-cup, scream it up to 8,000 rpm to make the claimed 28hp, stand back , watch as the engine go poof, bang, instant scrap metal. If you invest in HDT, invest in Loctite also. http://www.loctiteproducts.com/

HDT’s web site is full of inconstancies. UK Rally’s, Gold Medals, Silver medals, Platinum Medals, injection systems built by companies that don’t exist. I Googled the "2003 UK National Rally" Anyone in the UK know what Fred’s talking about? http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/company.htm

HDT has located themselves in Congressman Jerry Lewis’s District http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/summaries/lewis.php
and Fred Hayes is a Military contract artist, also an accomplished motorcycle rider, meaning he has a motorcycle license I guess.

I've met and interviewed employees and ex-employees of HDT, they hire from a temp agancy when they get inspections or when the media come around to show that thay are building something. I’m now swapping info with a man that actually worked with Fred and was involved with the Combat Motorcycle something or another at 29 Palm Marine Base (down the street). http://ramcoracing.com/index.htm

HDT's facility is a movie set, all show. I have been questioning about HTD for 5 years now. Maybe HDT is hoping that everyone goes away; I hope HDT gets investigated for fraud. They do build things, their toys, no Diesel bikes. After 5 years, no signs of HDT lawyers taking me to court for my negative banter on the net, slander? I’d like that, hey Judge, have HDT prove me wrong.

I'd like to help you as I have several suggestions. I’d also like others to mail everyone that will listen and ask what the F%$K is going on with HDT. I'd like to see more folks pressure these guys, but here in the States in an ocean of Harley riders, seems no one cares but me. Everyone has lost interest in the HDT I think. Does anyone remeber this post two and a half years ago? https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/view ... p?f=2&t=29

I'm waiting for you (Erik) to sell Jay Leno a bike if he hasn’t bought one yet, then Jay would have two diesel bikes, yours that runs, and a HDT that doesn’t.

You did good, figure out how to retrofit a Smart engine with mechanical injection, then you can toss the computers and electric fuel pump.

Good Luck, keep in touch, and start working on a kit so these other Diesel Bikers in this forum that want one of your masterpieces can build one.

Dave,
Just a crazy Diesel biker riding my Diesel bike in the land of funny trees, click on the picture.

andrewaust · Post by **andrewaust** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:41 am

Hey Dave

Good on you for checking up on the HDT M/C Progress. Now that is really something, not a bike to be seen, definitely sounds suspect mate. Sounds like they have a lot to answer for, especially when they have there hand out for more money, does feeding the Military Industrial Complex come to mind.

A

smokyjoe · Post by **smokyjoe** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:54 pm

Dave, you sure they don't have another location, maybe a secret underground facility up in the mountains, perhaps in an old SAC bunker? Maybe they moved their production area to Area 51? Maybe the bikes only come out at night under strict security? Maybe they have found a way to make a Diesel real quiet AND invisible too?

General, er... President Eisenhower warned us about that nasty Military-Industrial Complex, didn't he?

I've been involved in automotive and military projects as an engineer and part-time machinist for half of my "career?" and have seen some pretty good dog-and-pony shows over the years. They are usually run more by marketing execs and "investment" strategists than engineers, machinists, and the other "doers". Right down the road from me is a bunch famous for the "Scuderi engine". This is a smoke-and-mirrors show if there ever was one. I am surprised that these guys haven't been investigated by the SEC. They have yet to produce a working engine and recently "revealed" a fake mock-up in a glass case. At it's "release" hundreds of well-to-do (and ignorant but very hopeful not-so-well-to-do) folks reached deep into their pockets and "invested" millions more. Heck, these guys are so slick they have a pyramid investment scheme that is untraceable! It has been going on for about 20 years now. Heck of a cash cow.

I was suspect of the HDT bike when I saw a close-up of the engine. My little 7? horse Hatz looks to have a more robust head and cylinder, and by the size of the HDT crankcase it doesn't seem to hold a very big crank.

I thought their bike was designed by the Brits and first used by the UK forces, modified by Hayes to US specs and then adopted by the US forces. Is it REALLY an actual issue item, or is it still in the "evaluation" stage? By reading the press releases and website I would have guessed that every Marine was scooting over the dunes of Iraq on one.

Sheesh...............

Post by **Stuart** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:05 pm

As I may have said before, I was at the lecture on the bike where an incident was described relating to the crankshaft. A Marine rode the bike into deep water which got sucked into the engine. The con rod (a cross section would show its rounded edges for strength) was crushed when that piston hit the water. The engine was stripped and the crankshaft put on blocks so as they could measure how much it had deformed. It was stated that they found no damage to this crankshaft. They also found no damage to the head. The engine was reassembled with a new con rod and and fired up straight away with out any trouble. This came from Stuart McGuigan as he talked to Institute of Mechanical Engineers.
As with any other build I think only time will tell.

Stuart

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:07 pm

Stuart wrote: I think only time will tell. A Marine rode the bike into deep water.

Stuart,

This is getting laughable now. Let's all smile and enjoy.

It's been 10 plus years! Project started on or before 1998, Unvailed in 2001! http://www.peace65.freeserve.co.uk/Pict ... ESHDT3.pdf

Don't you think they should have tested the bike before it hit the media and press? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCpdWNENafc (Insert head banging on the wall smilie here)

A forged Inconel 718 crankshaft wouldn't even help. http://www.specialmetals.com/documents/ ... %20718.pdf

It's not the stregnth of the head, it's the shape of the combustion chamber!

Are you sure a Marine mechanic didn't throw the bike into the river, not ride it?

Maybe it hydro-locked with it's own jucies?

Again, what's the a silver, gold or platnum medal worth at the "2003 UK Rally"? Anyone? anyone? Bueller, Bueller, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2AR-8ET4A

Ok, back to building our Diesel Bikes. Smile everyone.

Dave

Sphere · Post by **Sphere** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:44 am

All this film proves is the HDT is not suitable to do stunts with

LocomotiveBreath wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCpdWNENafc

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:41 pm

Sphere wrote:All this film proves is the HDT is not suitable to do stunts with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCpdWNENafc

That Video proves, “Don’t push manure, it might land on your head”

Dave

smokyjoe · Post by **smokyjoe** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:05 pm

I just found this WAY down the Google list, but thought it was interesting reading if not already read (from 4 years ago!!!) Supposedly from the horse's mouth (Mr. Flynn of F1 Engineering). Too bad these guys don't seem to be getting anywhere at all....... I hate to see something that MAY have potential go stagnant, especially in this economy. Any idea where production is REALLY at for the USMC or what is really up with these guys, speculation aside? I can't see it taking all that long to build the engines and swap them on 500 bikes once the production tooling is in place.......... I'd love to see one of these machines in the Dakar run, that would really show the truth, finish or bust! (and shake lots of more change loose from the investors if it went at all well) This might even be a good story line for a TV reality show (or a soap opera).
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archiv ... 4-p-2.html

Anorak_ian · Post by **Anorak_ian** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:51 pm

Talking of bullshit how do you like the HDT performance figures?

PERFORMANCE:
Acceleration: 0-60 mph (106 kph), 9.3 sec
Maximum Speed: In excess of 100 mph.
Fuel Mileage: 98mpg @ 55mph

Why write "In excess of 100mph?" Is this a guess? Hdt supposedly make the things, you'd think they would know wouldn't you.

Nice one Dave.

andrewaust · Post by **andrewaust** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:42 pm

Anorak_ian wrote:Talking of bullshit how do you like the HDT performance figures?

PERFORMANCE:
Acceleration: 0-60 mph (106 kph), 9.3 sec
Maximum Speed: In excess of 100 mph.
Fuel Mileage: 98mpg @ 55mph

Why write "In excess of 100mph?" Is this a guess? HDT supposedly make the things, you'd think they would know wouldn't you.

Nice one Dave.

Interesting hey! You could almost ask HDT what vehicle was used for the Acceleration and speed figures as the bike must have been sitting on a trailer

!! Maybe if tested on a dyno you could ask which vehicle was the bike shared with.

In other words I don't think these figures add up also, like you said mate = it seems to good to be fair dinkum.

A

TedV · Post by **TedV** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:54 pm

I have no affiliation with HDT but if these bikes do not exist I would like to know how they are getting through impound and scrutinizing at the land speed records. Maybe we need to go to Bonneville to see them? I know it’s hard to get some stuff we need at work because of military contracts getting first priority. Sucks regular civilians can’t get one to enjoy and test. They may be vaporware, or they might not. I don’t trust much of what I read in the internet, but I would hope the FIM and AMA records could be trusted.

http://www.speedtrialsbybub.com/2008_ev ... lts08.html

I would say top speed is determined by size/weight of rider and how they streamline themselves. 150 pound (weight, not sterling) rider will go faster than a 300 pound rider. Read the section on aerodynamics and motorcycles in Tony Foales book. You can make a Royal Enfield go faster

Anorak_ian · Post by **Anorak_ian** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:53 pm

I think it goes with out saying that they must have two or three prototypes, it aint hard to spray them up with a spray can to look like a different bike, put on clip-on bars, a fairing and rear pegs gear them up etc etc. Race them a week apart and who's to know you don't have loads of them.

"I would say top speed is determined by size/weight of rider and how they streamline themselves."

Over to jockey Johnny Rocket Pants, and a fairing, they say they got 104mph out of it, I'll put money on it that it was the one with the fairing and the turbo charger.
The point being that the standard road going dirt bike aint going to do over 100mph. Not that that's a problem, the problem is that it seems they are not being truthful.

sbrumby · Post by **sbrumby** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:48 pm

This bike has been talked about for ages. When it was first talked about I said I would like the engine but not the bike as I only want a bike to go down tarmaced roads so off road does not apeal. But what was said then was they could not supply joe public as they had to supply 500 to the US army. And when talking to non diesel bikers I allways quote the US army has 500. Are these fiction or real? Surely someone from the army can verfy this?

Erik EVA Products · Post by **Erik EVA Products** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:16 pm

Dave,

did you get this news:
http://www.americanrider.magnify.net/vi ... otorcycles

pricetag: as bmw
time schedule: 2010

is this new or what !!!

What do we think, and mr Hayes i invite you over to join our discussion !

Regards

Erik
EVA Products BV Holland

TedV · Post by **TedV** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:38 pm

Erik EVA Products wrote:Dave,

What do we think, and mr Hayes i invite you over to join our discussion !

Regards

Erik
EVA Products BV Holland

sucks the initial build possibly available in spring of 2010, will be for collectors and have collector pricing. If I got that correct form the interview. After that the regular production would be BMW priced. I know many local folks who would be interested in a diesel bike if realisticly priced, but have no desire to build one. Time to build takes away from time to ride.

I am on the HDT email list, but have not received any info. They have a blurb about not being able to respond to emails. I have emailed Craig Vetter many months ago about diesel engined bikes via his fuel economy experiment/freedom machine blog. Found out he knows Fred Hayes and said back then he would forward the dieselbike.net and forum info on to Fred. I also expressed my EXTREME interest in only an HDT engine without a frame.

sbrumby · Post by **sbrumby** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:40 pm

On listening to the video again what he actuall says he suplied over 500 gas bikes to the marines I presume this means petrol, now these bikes are being returned for them to be converted to diesel. This is very different from what I understood before suplying 500 diesel bikes. Does anybody know how many diesels are in the military?

Anorak_ian · Post by **Anorak_ian** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:47 pm

I picked up on the same thing,
so if he hasn't been making and supplying diesel bikes, what has he been doing for the past 5 years?

pietenpol2002 · Post by **pietenpol2002** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:06 pm

Perhaps Mr. Hayes could purchase this example as inspiration for how to build a functional KLR.

http://dallas.en.craigslist.org/ndf/mcy/1291089337.html

Ron

TedV · Post by **TedV** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:57 pm

pietenpol2002 wrote:Perhaps Mr. Hayes could purchase this example as inspiration for how to build a functional KLR.

http://dallas.en.craigslist.org/ndf/mcy/1291089337.html

Ron

hmm $4K for a 02 KLR diesel ready to roll, 65mph max and 130mpg... there is a local 02 KLR for $2800, 08 gas KLR for $4300 and they get 55mpg. I need to go price out parts.

if only I didn't like building things so much. I'm tempted to email the guy and find out why he isn't on the forum here.

Hey y'all, how does the CVT belts stand up to water and muck? the craigslist one looks like it has a decent cover on it.

coachgeo · Post by **coachgeo** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:58 am

Damn..... that KLR builder is only about 40 minutes or so from here. Gee wonder who Im going to look up!!!!

I just emailed him and invited him to join here.

andrewaust · Post by **andrewaust** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:04 am

Cool looking KLR, them comet CVT's seem to save a lot of grief in trying to place a gearbox in there somewhere, especially on the Japanese bikes.

4K seems to be a good asking price from where I am down here in OZ, the KLR would be a better mount down here too, lots of dirt roads and tracks

.

Good find pietenpol2002

A

Post by **Crazymanneil** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:48 pm

Tidy looking job, I love the side cover on it. Nice find.

N

Post by **Dan J** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:59 pm

Just spotted something interesting...

Although the two HDT websites http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com and http://www.hdtusa.com still appear on Google the links are now dead. They both simply hang and have done for a good few days now (I thought originally it was a temporary internet/host problem).

So... is this:
i) a major problem with their web server/host that has not been repaired/noticed/reported; or
ii) Have HDT finally disappeared

I know which my money is on.

Erik - perhaps you should be getting in touch with the US Army? At least they might actually get some physical bikes from you!

Anorak_ian · Post by **Anorak_ian** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:59 pm

I think they must have read your entry, as those links work.

Post by **Dan J** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:15 pm

How strange - I tried a few times throughout last week, yesterday, this morning (hence the post) and no joy - but now they're working again.

I'd still like to know what is happening with these KLR diesels - are they actually making any bikes?

TedV · Post by **TedV** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:57 pm

the pages look different, they may have been updating the web page.

also from the rumor mill... they are converting the gas bikes to diesel in the field, so the work is going on in Afpakiraqistan or wherever. But who knows the real story.

Post by **Stuart** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:48 pm

Well I'm not one of the cynics

If you ask me HDT are caught between a rock and a hard place. Put yourself in their shoes. They've had thousands of enquiry's after a bike which is still technically classified. Even the engine manual is a classified document. They know they can shift a lot of these when the time comes but they are still new to the Military. They have their hands tide.
If I was them I'd try and strike a balance by keeping folks interested until they can legally supply them to the general public. That won't be for a while yet I reckon.
So, I say it's all down to red tape

Post by **Dan J** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:16 pm

Website once again updated and also an article in MCN...

http://hdtusa.com/index.php

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/ ... 0-m20-jp8/

Will there ever be commercial sales of this bike?

DieselBike.net

I went to HDT again!

I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

HDT/F1 News..... Old but interesting

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!

Re: I went to HDT again!