shaking the feeling
Moderators: Dan J, Diesel Dave, Crazymanneil, Stuart
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 pm
- Location: London
shaking the feeling
Just an odd one here.
I would love to start commuting on my diesel bike, but recently I have very no confidence in my build. Its been breaking quite regularly, wiring issues, engine mounting flexing, more wiring issues, gearbox rebuild. My thoughts are that it wont every become reliable
Do I keep going and keep fixing the broken things as they crop up, in the hope that eventually I fix all the little problems and it stops, or do I scrap the thing and build a better one with what I learned doing it?
Just my rant
I would love to start commuting on my diesel bike, but recently I have very no confidence in my build. Its been breaking quite regularly, wiring issues, engine mounting flexing, more wiring issues, gearbox rebuild. My thoughts are that it wont every become reliable
Do I keep going and keep fixing the broken things as they crop up, in the hope that eventually I fix all the little problems and it stops, or do I scrap the thing and build a better one with what I learned doing it?
Just my rant
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:24 pm
- Location: near Poitiers west France
Re: shaking the feeling
If you fix things properly if possible, you should not have to go back to that fault again. eventually you should win.
Sometimes there is a design fault you cannot overcome, such as water pumps failing in the old Hilman imps .
Sometimes there is a design fault you cannot overcome, such as water pumps failing in the old Hilman imps .
Larry
- old clunker
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am
- Location: London
Re: shaking the feeling
If you successfully fix all the problems, the motorbike will eventually be reliable to commute on. After I sorted out the engine on mine, with better quality bits, it starts and runs first time and is reliable. I regularly use the motorbike, and will be using it to December. Then it's winter break time!
Just try to use the best bits you can get to fix the motorbike.
Hopefully you have better luck with your bike soon.
Just try to use the best bits you can get to fix the motorbike.
Hopefully you have better luck with your bike soon.
There's nothing like the smell of burnt vegetable oil in the morning!!
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 pm
- Location: London
Re: shaking the feeling
In which case, I will persevere through the winter with it I have good breakdown so its not the end of the world :
- old clunker
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am
- Location: London
Re: shaking the feeling
The old "rule of thumb" is that if the part attached to the bike looks tatty, it usually is, and will fail when least expected and most inconvenient!!
So if the bits attached to the motorbike overall look good, they generally will be, and will be reliable - we hope!
So if the bits attached to the motorbike overall look good, they generally will be, and will be reliable - we hope!
There's nothing like the smell of burnt vegetable oil in the morning!!
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 pm
- Location: London
Re: shaking the feeling
Hahhah that doesnt bode well for mine, if you seen the pics!
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 761
- Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:35 am
- Location: UK northants
Re: shaking the feeling
If you've fixed the oil leak on the gearbox it should go on for years after the work you have done on it.
As for the rest my thinking is keep it simple. Apart from the speedo my only other gauge is the Gammatronix charging indicator and that's just a light!
As for the rest my thinking is keep it simple. Apart from the speedo my only other gauge is the Gammatronix charging indicator and that's just a light!
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 pm
- Location: London
Re: shaking the feeling
I haven't actually but I have slowed it enough so that it only needs checking every month.
although i have noticed that when i ride with a pillion , its leaks A LOT more.
although i have noticed that when i ride with a pillion , its leaks A LOT more.
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:58 pm
- Location: California
Re: shaking the feeling
A good and proven method is to approach the machine as individual systems, which they are. Address fuel in every aspect, then that's done. Address electrical at every related component, done.
We often lose sight of a particular system by chasing around on one little thing here, then another unrelated thing over there and never fully take command of each individual system within the whole. Also by solving all issues with a given system such as fuel, then our troubleshooting of a breakdown is immediately made easier and quicker. We would be fairly sure it isn't caused by a sub-system that we've just COMPLETELY overhauled. Soon enough, all sub-systems have been brought up to reliable condition and we can then relax and trust that all is well.
In addition it can give a much deeper knowledge or familiarity with every component of a sub-system, and how it relates to all other sub-systems as a whole.
We often lose sight of a particular system by chasing around on one little thing here, then another unrelated thing over there and never fully take command of each individual system within the whole. Also by solving all issues with a given system such as fuel, then our troubleshooting of a breakdown is immediately made easier and quicker. We would be fairly sure it isn't caused by a sub-system that we've just COMPLETELY overhauled. Soon enough, all sub-systems have been brought up to reliable condition and we can then relax and trust that all is well.
In addition it can give a much deeper knowledge or familiarity with every component of a sub-system, and how it relates to all other sub-systems as a whole.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 pm
- Location: London
Re: shaking the feeling
I like your thought process, basically tackle each sub system until you end up with a system that is reliable I suspect that's what I will end up doing.
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:58 pm
- Location: California
Re: shaking the feeling
Systems: I learned a very long time ago, the '5 P's Principle' - 'Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance'.
Looking at Integrated Systems - One of the largest projects I've done lately was to stuff a '90 Cummins Reman 4BTA into my 1967 Dodge D-100 Town Wagon. One year only truck, the only 1967 Dodge TW built, last one off the assembly line! Been driving this sweet old truck for 35 years and 1,000,000 miles [already had 200,000+ when I got it] and wanted to do it only one way: THE RIGHT WAY! I knew that every System bumper to bumper would have to be changed. A few examples, but LOTS MORE required:
Suspension System: upgrade from 1/2 ton to 1 ton, with a D-200 I-beam front axle with H/D [Heavy Duty] spindles & larger brakes, a Dana 60HD rear axle with larger brakes, new H/D leaf spring packs front & rear with H/D shackles, H/D shocks, new steering box, pitman/idler arm, tie-rod ends, modify/extend steering column to lengthen & change mount angle, front & rear sway bars, install Air-Lift front airbags, fab extra H/D front & rear bumpers & trailer receiver hitch/antisway system etc.
Engine Mount System: fabricate H/D engine mounts that reinforce frame, modify trans crossmember - designed to lower engine/trans in chassis frame while fitting to NV4500 trans, modify firewall clearance for downpipe, tear out lower firewall & floorboards to install 3/16" plate for a flat floor with no transmission hump, rebuild rusted cab mounts & footwells, replace front doors & hinges, corrected driveshaft angles, install Tom Woods Custom Driveshaft with H/D Spicer u-joints etc.
Engine/Trans System: Cummins Adapter Plate matched to 2000 Dodge/Cummins NV4500 5 speed's bellhousing, turn flywheel & install roller-pilot bearing using correct H/D Cummins clutch-pressure plate-release bearing, mount original '67 Dodge hydraulic clutch slave cylinder to NV4500 trans case to work with original master cylinder and pedals, fabricate new trans rear crossmember with proper rubber isolators installed for tailshaft support with clearance for flat floors, fabricate trans shifter, add trans output shaft harmonic balancer u-joint to match Tom Woods driveshaft & length & more.
Brake System: Rebuild all with new H/D 1 ton drums, backing plates, cylinders, shoes, brake lines etc.
Fuel System: install 32 gallon Aluminum fuel tank in rear frame rails with rubber cushioned support, fabricate & install larger 3/8" & 5/16" fuel supply & return lines, install clear vinyl tube at last 12" of fuel line for instant check on air leaks, install 1.5 & 0.50 micron fuel filter, modify fuel sender to read correctly with old gauge and new tank, fabricate vented fuel tank filler neck to rear/side of body, new lift pump, adjust Bosch VE injector pump for performance with other System's mods & much more.
Electrical System and Interior System: upgrade all wiring, heavier [welding cable] starter motor circuit with key switch & redundant push-button Start, with 2nd push-button under hood to crank engine while bleeding injectors, modify electric to use old gauges [replace old gauge guts with new guts using old trim & dials] plus 4 new gauges of 2nd Oil Pressure plus Pyro, Boost, Temp, Volts. Block heater & oil pan heater, future grid heater. Rewire all other circuits with heavier new wire & relays, bonded grounds, new relay-powered headlights, driving lights, fog lights, add clearance & roof rack lights, add 2nd set of tail lights, new interior lights & electric, install Radio/MP3 player balanced 6 speaker Surround Sound System, fabricate new lower dash for auxiliary gauges, fab another lower dash for switches, fab overhead console for radio & storage, all out of aluminum, fab new steel cab headliner, fabricate full length aluminum headliner in rear cargo area, aluminum interior sidewalls and door panels.
Engine Accessories System: fabricate mounting for '90 Dodge intercooler to fit behind stock grill [1/4" clearance between headlights] & in front of radiator, using original battery tray, allow hood clearance for I/C pipes, modify hood crossmember & latch parts to clear I/C, modify radiator mount for clearance & install electric fan, new intake manifold & airhorn for I/C, fab aluminum tube ducting for I/C, upgrade H1C turbo to HTT Stage II Hy35 - new compressor wheel & housing, fabricate 3" downpipe & exhaust to fit original mounts, upgrade alternator & wiring to 100W, etc. etc.
That's just a few examples of 5 P's addressing System Analysis: to create trustworthy well Planned Sub-Systems to become a total Integrated System. There's a whole lot more that was done! I know exactly what's in there, everywhere on the whole truck, bumper to bumper because every System is MADE RIGHT in the beginning through 'Proper Planning', to envision each System in the completed whole, then fabricated into the whole Integrated System. Not saying it's always easy....but it sure is a sweet running rig now! Had considerable help from Above, and all was done in a dirt field, no shop...
.
Looking at Integrated Systems - One of the largest projects I've done lately was to stuff a '90 Cummins Reman 4BTA into my 1967 Dodge D-100 Town Wagon. One year only truck, the only 1967 Dodge TW built, last one off the assembly line! Been driving this sweet old truck for 35 years and 1,000,000 miles [already had 200,000+ when I got it] and wanted to do it only one way: THE RIGHT WAY! I knew that every System bumper to bumper would have to be changed. A few examples, but LOTS MORE required:
Suspension System: upgrade from 1/2 ton to 1 ton, with a D-200 I-beam front axle with H/D [Heavy Duty] spindles & larger brakes, a Dana 60HD rear axle with larger brakes, new H/D leaf spring packs front & rear with H/D shackles, H/D shocks, new steering box, pitman/idler arm, tie-rod ends, modify/extend steering column to lengthen & change mount angle, front & rear sway bars, install Air-Lift front airbags, fab extra H/D front & rear bumpers & trailer receiver hitch/antisway system etc.
Engine Mount System: fabricate H/D engine mounts that reinforce frame, modify trans crossmember - designed to lower engine/trans in chassis frame while fitting to NV4500 trans, modify firewall clearance for downpipe, tear out lower firewall & floorboards to install 3/16" plate for a flat floor with no transmission hump, rebuild rusted cab mounts & footwells, replace front doors & hinges, corrected driveshaft angles, install Tom Woods Custom Driveshaft with H/D Spicer u-joints etc.
Engine/Trans System: Cummins Adapter Plate matched to 2000 Dodge/Cummins NV4500 5 speed's bellhousing, turn flywheel & install roller-pilot bearing using correct H/D Cummins clutch-pressure plate-release bearing, mount original '67 Dodge hydraulic clutch slave cylinder to NV4500 trans case to work with original master cylinder and pedals, fabricate new trans rear crossmember with proper rubber isolators installed for tailshaft support with clearance for flat floors, fabricate trans shifter, add trans output shaft harmonic balancer u-joint to match Tom Woods driveshaft & length & more.
Brake System: Rebuild all with new H/D 1 ton drums, backing plates, cylinders, shoes, brake lines etc.
Fuel System: install 32 gallon Aluminum fuel tank in rear frame rails with rubber cushioned support, fabricate & install larger 3/8" & 5/16" fuel supply & return lines, install clear vinyl tube at last 12" of fuel line for instant check on air leaks, install 1.5 & 0.50 micron fuel filter, modify fuel sender to read correctly with old gauge and new tank, fabricate vented fuel tank filler neck to rear/side of body, new lift pump, adjust Bosch VE injector pump for performance with other System's mods & much more.
Electrical System and Interior System: upgrade all wiring, heavier [welding cable] starter motor circuit with key switch & redundant push-button Start, with 2nd push-button under hood to crank engine while bleeding injectors, modify electric to use old gauges [replace old gauge guts with new guts using old trim & dials] plus 4 new gauges of 2nd Oil Pressure plus Pyro, Boost, Temp, Volts. Block heater & oil pan heater, future grid heater. Rewire all other circuits with heavier new wire & relays, bonded grounds, new relay-powered headlights, driving lights, fog lights, add clearance & roof rack lights, add 2nd set of tail lights, new interior lights & electric, install Radio/MP3 player balanced 6 speaker Surround Sound System, fabricate new lower dash for auxiliary gauges, fab another lower dash for switches, fab overhead console for radio & storage, all out of aluminum, fab new steel cab headliner, fabricate full length aluminum headliner in rear cargo area, aluminum interior sidewalls and door panels.
Engine Accessories System: fabricate mounting for '90 Dodge intercooler to fit behind stock grill [1/4" clearance between headlights] & in front of radiator, using original battery tray, allow hood clearance for I/C pipes, modify hood crossmember & latch parts to clear I/C, modify radiator mount for clearance & install electric fan, new intake manifold & airhorn for I/C, fab aluminum tube ducting for I/C, upgrade H1C turbo to HTT Stage II Hy35 - new compressor wheel & housing, fabricate 3" downpipe & exhaust to fit original mounts, upgrade alternator & wiring to 100W, etc. etc.
That's just a few examples of 5 P's addressing System Analysis: to create trustworthy well Planned Sub-Systems to become a total Integrated System. There's a whole lot more that was done! I know exactly what's in there, everywhere on the whole truck, bumper to bumper because every System is MADE RIGHT in the beginning through 'Proper Planning', to envision each System in the completed whole, then fabricated into the whole Integrated System. Not saying it's always easy....but it sure is a sweet running rig now! Had considerable help from Above, and all was done in a dirt field, no shop...
.
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 778
- Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:56 pm
- Location: Goshen, IN USA
Re: shaking the feeling
Interesting!! I'd never heard that reference to the 5 P's. Takes me back to my days as an intern where our chief psychiatrist would occasionally refer to certain patients as being a case of the 5 P's - Piss Poor Protoplasm Poorly Put Together.
Ron
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:58 pm
- Location: California
Re: shaking the feeling
Ha! Yeah, and that's probably about the same era that I heard the 5 P's in
Seems the world of late is displaying the Law of Diminishing Returns in that the Protoplasm Deprived are in the full bore Deficit Spending mode, apparently breeding at record rates...? Regardless, stupid is something we can't control but ignorant is all a matter of personal choice ~
Seems the world of late is displaying the Law of Diminishing Returns in that the Protoplasm Deprived are in the full bore Deficit Spending mode, apparently breeding at record rates...? Regardless, stupid is something we can't control but ignorant is all a matter of personal choice ~
- Stuart
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2221
- Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:08 pm
- Location: Horsham West Sussex, England
- Contact:
Re: shaking the feeling
Colin Clarke (who built the Ruggerfield) had a similar thing written into his notes - only it was 8 'P's. "Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Personal Performance"
Stuart. M1030M1, Honda NC700S, Grom!, Toyota Corolla 1.4 Turbo Diesel. Favouring MPG over MPH.
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:58 pm
- Location: California
Re: shaking the feeling
I first heard it maybe 30+ years ago? I've been a writer for a long time and therefore interested in words & word origins. It can be real surprising to find 'Modern' everyday sayings in our current vernacular that actually date back centuries, through different languages, cultures etc. For all we know some guy or gal 5,000 years ago looked at some negative results of a pile of donkey cart wreckage and mumbled, "Ya know, proper planning...." etc.
Re: shaking the feeling
Same here. I occasionally make the mistake of going to Wiktionary.org and then I get stuck chasing etymology around all day.XLerate wrote:I've been a writer for a long time and therefore interested in words & word origins.
-
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:58 pm
- Location: California
Re: shaking the feeling
Ha, I know JUST what you mean I'll sit down with a big fat Merriam Websters and just start thumbing through, "Hmmm, well I'll be... Hunh, well look at that..." fascinated. Doesn't take much to amuse me HAAAH!