Let the Honderini begin....

[albertaphil]

So after one false start with a 1981 CB750 (wayyyy too heavy) I've found a bike that will work perfectly. It's a 1980 Honda CB400...less than 400lbs, disk brake on the front, full gauges, big enough for a passenger, and looks pretty smart for an old girl. I've measured things as best I can and it looks like my Ruggerini MD151 will fit the frame just like it was born there.

I'm going to use the 6spd trans. from the CB the way mazdog355 did on his old CB350 with a Yanmar L100. I just hope I can cut the cylinders and crank off in the right place:-) I'll have a chain primary on the right side of the bike to drive the transmission the correct way, which I prefer from an aesthetics and maintenance perspective as it puts the oil filter and dipstick in front where I can get at them. The only major issue I can see right now is how to run the clutch. On mazdog's bike, the clutch was operated from the left side of the trans. such that removing the clutch cover made no difference to operating the clutch. I will have to build the clutch actuator into the primary cover somehow, or else modify the existing cover, which is more likely to work now that I think about it.

So far I've made a great mess, strewn pieces all over the shop, and broken my clutch basket trying to get the spanner nut undone...to make an omelet, you've gotta break a few eggs, right? Next order of business is to remove the cylinders and clutch, and cut the crankshaft off in such as way that I'll be able to make a plate to seal the open end of the transmission case. Then bolt the trans. back into the frame, lift the engine up to where it needs to be, figure out where to bend and weld some tubing to make a subframe to hold the engine, since the 400cc honda engine was part of the frame. Then bolt the engine in place, and start dealing with all of the little things I haven't thought of yet. I'm totally stoked.

So now for a few questions:

1) What size of chain should I use for my primary? Mazdog used a #40 with his Yanmar.

I guess I can only think of one question right now. If you think of others for me, feel free to answer them.

Cheers,
Philip

[coachgeo]

Great start. Look forward to your progress reports

[lardy1]

looking good m8

[albertaphil]

Okay, so I got the CB400 engine pulled apart such that I could cut the case halves. You can see the results. Frame modification has begun. I had to cut the short piece of down-tubing right off that comes from just behind the handlebar pivot. Now I need to weld up a subframe to carry the engine. I have some schedule 80 pipe lying around which is about the same diameter as the frame I'll be welding it to at the rear, although the schedule 80 has a thicker wall. Does anyone know if gas pipe is generally weaker per pound than something else I can get cheaply and easily? I want the bike to be as light as possible, but the schedule 80 will only make a couple of pounds difference in all I'll need for the subframe.

Now for the snags:
1) I'll probably need a shorter oil filter as it comes very close to my front tire and may strike if I hit a bump with the handlebars turned.
2) With my engine centered in the frame, my crankshaft is a couple of inches to the right of where it needs to be to line up with the clutch on the transmission. I'm confident that I can extend my secondary chain sprocket on the clutch out as far as I need to by finding some 5 1/5" i.d. pipe, welding it to the gear on the clutch, and then attaching my sprocket to the pipe. It will make building a primary cover a pain, but I do want the bike to be balanced, and I want it to look good, too. Balance wise, I'm planning to run my exhaust out the right side, which will help balance an un-centered engine, if that is the way I go.
3) I have to run my clutch somehow which will mean building an actuator into my primary cover or modifying part of the side case from the CB400 engine to attach to my primary cover.
4) I broke the part of the clutch that has the 4 posts that the clutch springs bolt to. Does anyone have a clutch lying around for a 1980 CB400?

[albertaphil]

Some more pics...

[albertaphil]

And a few more...I wish I could add more than 3 pictures per post.

[sbrumby]

This might be a ridiculas question but are U sure you have got the direction of travel correct? On the picture of the original engine does the clutch not rotate CW. Your engine is a Ruggerini MB i think. The drive side of nearly all engines is CCW. You have mounted the engine reversed, but it will be CCW on the clutch side of the bike. If you plan to chain the two together wont it be going the wrong way? ( I have been wrong before).

[albertaphil]

Sam, thanks for the heads up. Yes, my engine rotates CCW looking at the crankshaft, and it will be chain driving the clutch in the same direction. However, the clutch was originally GEAR driven by a crankshaft the rotated CLOCKWISE, so the clutch was always turning CCW and will continue to. Moreover, the transmission of the bike consists of 2 shafts. The clutch drives the first shaft with a direction of rotation OPPOSITE to the way the wheels of the bike go. The clutch shaft GEAR DRIVES the countershaft and drive sprocket, thus reversing the direction rotation back to the correct way for forward travel. The important part is that the HONDA ENGINE ROTATED CLOCKWISE on the right side of the bike.

It is the same way with your VFR. You are belt driving (I think) what was originally the CRANKSHAFT of your RD transmission the same direction as your wheels are going. That shaft is geared to your transmission clutch shaft the same way my Honda engine was. I'm just replacing a gear with a chain, eliminating a reversal of rotational direction, which lets me get away with a right side drive. Having said that, I'll be pretty upset if I get this thing done and I can only go in reverse:-)

Cheers,
Phil

[sbrumby]

Yeh I said I am sometimes wrong. I was thinking the clutch went in the same direction as the wheel. I was probably thinking of the old british bikes where the clutch rotates in the same direction as the wheel.

[sbrumby]

Reminds me of the time a mate brought the seat of his MF35 tractor for me to weld. The steel pan type that sits on a bent spring. It was so rusty I could not tell where it had broken off. So I welded it how I thought it should be, made a good job as well. Mate was pleased. Next day back again, said seat was good if you wanted to watch what you had ploughed, but no bleedin use for holding the steering wheel.

[Stuart]

I remember at the first Brit Rally when Ernie Dorsett and myself were talking about the differences with Ruggerini engines. They do seem to come in quite a variety of configurations.

[albertaphil]

Progress is slow, but noticeable. The transmission is plated in thanks to a friends fancy spool gun and experience.

The engine mounts and placement have been decided upon and partially completed.

The primary chain sprocket designed, purchased, and installed (it fits!)

Now I just have to figure out how to keep the oil level in the primary case about 10cm lower than in the transmission, with only an unsealed bearing around the main clutch shaft separating the two (and that is after I plug the big holes in the transmission sidecase first.) Would a diesel produce enough vacuum to run a vacuum operated fuel pump a.la. snowmobiles? The oil shouldn't pour past the bearing, and a little pump sucking from the primary case and dumping into the transmission would be easy and foolproof.

I also have to extend the driven sprocket of my primary drive out from the clutch drive gear about 3/4" to get it to line up with the engine sprocket.

My engine is left of centre about 8cm, but the bike should be balanced well with the primary drive and chaincase installed, and with a single exhaust out the right side of the bike.

[Sphere]

I'm in love with taperlocks. Looking good

edit: in the second picture the taperlock on reverse I think. But you will notice when you want to put the screws in

[albertaphil]

More pictures. Is there any way I can add more than 3 pics to a post?

[albertaphil]

More pics.

[Byrdman]

Great project. I love the ides of using the stock transmission, exactly what I want to do.

[Nanko]

The smallest filter I could find was the purflux LS309
Renault , mitsubishi and volvo
Diameter 76 mm length only 55 mm
Thread M20 X 1,5 mm

[andrewaust]

These builds are just getting better, well done - looking forward to seeing the finished product.


A

[albertaphil]

So it has been four years and many significant life events since I last posted a progress report on this bike. Actually, I have made progress bit by bit, but nothing worth posting about. So here is what I've done since spring 2010.

1) Purchased 1/4" plate aluminum for the back and outer rim of the chaincase and 3/16" plate for the chaincase cover. I used a table saw and jigsaw to cut the pieces after much cardboard templating. For the outer rim, I used the rungs of an unextended extension ladder to bend the 4" wide 1/4" thick aluminum strip to follow the contour of the chaincase cover. It actually worked pretty well.

2) I hired a machine shop to turn a 5 and 1/2" diameter thick wall pipe to the right length to make a spacer to mount my clutch drive sprocket to. The sprocket must be 3/4" away from the original clutch drive gear (that was run from the crankshaft of the honda engine) in order to line up with the crankshaft sprocket. The shop also had to turn the center out of the sprocket in order to fit onto the pipe spacer as no one makes a sprocket with a hole that big in the center. The shop turned a step into the pipe spacer for the sprocket to press onto.

3) I used the handy-dandy sawzall to cut the clutch actuator out of the Honda engine sidecase

4) I hired a welder/artist friend to tig-weld the chaincase parts together, including welding the honda clutch actuator into the chaincase cover. The finished product is pretty sexy, I think. This would have been much easier if I had started with an older honda that ran the clutch from the left side with a rod through the middle of the transmission. On those ones, all the right side engine cover did was keep the oil in. To be honest, I have to blame some of the slowness of the project on the aforementioned custom parts/machining/welding... I started this whole project because I found an MD151 on Kijiji locally for $200; "sweet, now I just need any old bike frame and I'm on the road." Well, to date I have spent $1200 on custom parts and work alone, and it just takes me a while to modify my original plan. Buuut, I want something that I will want to ride a lot, and that I'm not afraid of breaking on me. I hope that I have succeeded.

5) Test fit the engine to the transmission. The clutch and engine sprockets are close enough in alignment that I don't need to make any modifications, which is good because all I could do to modify engine to transmission alignment would be to have Martin Sprockets lathe me a new taperlock bushing.

So now I have to finish the mounting of the engine to the transmission, and elongate some engine mount bolt-holes. Then I have to finish mounting the chain tensioner. It came out of an early '80s yamaha 1100cc bike. It tensioned the big laminated chain the attached the crankshaft to the clutch shaft. Then I have to drill my chaincase cover, and tap some holes in the mounting tabs welded to the inside of the chaincase rim. Then I have to mount a little fuel pump to lubricate the transmission by dumping oil onto the top of the gear shafts. Originally the transmission bearings were pressure lubed with engine oil. i will be running less than half the horsepower at 1/3rd the rpm, so the oil splashed around by my pump and the spinning gears will suffice. Then I will do the wiring which should be easy as it is just 2 wires coming from the Ruggerini that have to attach to 3 contacts on the honda. One of those will be for the charge light, which will be inoperative for now.

Once that is all done, it will be a complete disassemby to varsol out 4 years of dust and aluminum shavings from the transmission, and then sealing everything up while assembling with Ultrablack RTV. I have had good luck with Ultrablack, but I'm open to good ideas. I am speaking of the transmission case-halves, the tranmission top-case to the inner chaincase, and the chaincase cover.

[henneberg]

thanx for the update, looks promising.

Looking forward to see it running

[sbrumby]

Nice work. Just a couple of points. CB400 is called the superdream this side of the pond and as such has twin disks on the front? Mine which is down as a CB400 only has one as someone had removed one although the mountings are still there, and replaced the engine with a CB250 until I replaced it with a Yanmar. Aparantly the 400 engine wasn`t very good as it was a bored out 250. You seem to have sorted out the fuel pump clearance issue, but I dont think it is required at all. they are only fitted to stationary engines to allow a bottom mounted fuel tank. Mine is still on the big bike but only because the space wasnt an issue. Did you fit a small oil pump to the gear box? This is something I also question as most gearboxes are just spash fed and if you think about what is going on inside with oil and gears turning dipping into the oil it must be like a monsoon inside.
Anyway keep up the good work.

[albertaphil]

Thanks for the replies.

One of the original complications of this build has been transmission lubrication. The chaincase cannot be sealed from the transmission. That meant that if I were to splash lube the transmission, the chain between the crankshaft and clutch would be half submerged...not good.

So I was trying to figure out how to keep different oil levels and had it figured that I would draw oil from the chaincase at the right level and pump it into the trans which would be kept up to the bottom of the main trans bearings. That brought up issues of sizing the oil pump to match the rate at which the oil would move between the trans and chaincase. Right now I figure that as long as the little (fuel) pump I rig up to move oil dumps It somewhere on one of the gears, the fog of oil should make it to the bearings. As such, I will simply keep the oil level no higher than the bottom of the chain and draw from and dump into the trans alone. I have plenty of sump below the level of the chain. Im planning on using 0w30 engine oil.

[albertaphil]

New video. I think I will need to loctite every bolt. It was interesting watching the ones that hadnt been tightened fully unscrew themselves:-)

I think you will be interested in this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR0DX-3 ... ata_player

[coachgeo]

Yeah for you!!! It is so awesome to see a long slow bike build moving forward again

[albertaphil]

Well I put the sprockets on and ran the bike today. The first time the engine sprocket came loose immediately so I put a bolt in the end of the crankshaft and tightened the taperlock some more. I'm really regretting having the taperlock bushing machined with bolts in the back. I had this bright idea about being able to slide the sprocket off without taking off the bushing, but of course it all comes loose at the same time anyway. And it is just really hard to tighten the bolts. I had to cut off a little allen wrench to fit in behind, and it is so short that I don't think I'm getting very much torque on it. So in short, I've gone and complicated something that Taperlocks are supposed to make really simple. Anywho...

Here is the link to the video. I'm hoping the chain setup will quiet down once I put oil in it. But the clutch seems to work well, which was one of the biggest complications of this project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyHUU8O7UGc


Yes, I am in Canada. Can you tell?

[henneberg]

Nice to see the compostion running

The primary sprocket on my Ruggerini MD151 is machined to fit the 1:5 conus on the engine, it has been running fixed in position for 700 km so far.

A small description is at: https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/view ... =31&t=2599

[albertaphil]

Holy crap, this is exciting! I drove the bike on the road for the first time tonight. I probably shouldn't have since the headlight doesn't work yet, but nothing flew apart, and it was quite smooth and about as powerful as I was expecting. Yeehaw! Will post some vids when I can get some help and some daylight.

[Peter the blacksmith]

Congratulations, the first testrun is a nice milepole to reach ! Especially if all works well Looking forward to some photos

[albertaphil]

On the road. There was a strong quartering crosswind today.

In the first video I pass from right to left at about 90kmh into the wind

In the second I pass from left to right at 100kmh.

So for the 10 minutes of riding I did (before I pulled the chaincase apart to fix an oil leak) the performance appears to be similar to other md151 powered bikes on this site. Very exciting and satisfying. And yes, it was cold...about -5 C.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdRWpXV3YhA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPm29IMHT8o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOuJqw2zExk

[henneberg]

Congratulation, looks good.

Here in Denmark ( 55 latitude North ) we have low temperatures most of the year, so I cut off the cooling fan part of the MD151 flywheel.

Vibrations are on the same level as before, but engine revs must easier, flywheel loosed 2.2 kg of weight

Did the oil pump solution for lubricating the gearbox worked out OK ?