hatz dieselchopper no info

[Sphere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFEwa2-moRk&hl=nl

[Stuart]

It's on here: http://www.dutch-lion-motorbikes.com/
http://www.dutch-lion-motorbikes.com/catalogus/s/5268

More video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XvxKthU ... re=related

Goggle translation from the Dutch.
Hatz diesel engine This bike was built by order Hoc tempus art and science. Beautiful and thriving twin triumph motorcycle frame and paper.

[smokyjoe]

Cool find! That looks like the Hatz E79 engine or a close sibling. That's what I am grafting into my bike. Odd engine, fan is in flywheel, sucks air DOWNWARD past the head and cylinder and over oil cooler fins (on ends) and blows it out around the flywheel periphery. Has vertical fins on cylinder, this one doesn't seem to have the cover over cylinder fins and may? have a different flywheel fitted???

Cool bike, nonetheless! What's that tranny and drive from, is that from a Urinal?

[Anorak_ian]

Urinal, Lol.
I don't know but it looks like it's over geared a bit. I don't fancy that exhaust pipe much, the rider will stink after a few miles.
Nice bike, I like the old Brit look.

[smokyjoe]

Geez, I was perusing YouTube since I have the same engine for the Hatzuki. Lo and behold there was a video of a BMW Marine D12, looks exactly like the lowly Hatz, except with BMW cast into the rocker cover! What's up? Did BMW buy these from Hatz re-branded? I like seeing all the curious stuff you guys have in Europe, while we are stuck with the boring and mundane here in the US. Rice-rockets and Harleys. (I like old Harleys, though) That "Hatz dieselchopper" does seem geared too slow, the Hatz is made to run at 3000 RPM all day and shakes, rattles, and rolls at anything slower than about 1,000 RPM. Mine was bolted to a heavy steel welding table and it would vibrate down the driveway at a slow idle. I better see my dentist and have him check all my fillings before I get ready to ride it!

[Sphere]

I emailed the seller for you and he says it's the Hatz type is 71 and the gearbox is AWO.

[smokyjoe]

Thanks for contacting the seller. The Hatz E71 is 316cc capacity, and the E79 that I have is 422cc. I wish I had the bigger of the series, the E780, 528cc or E785, 625cc. The 71 weighs 47kg and the 79 is 53kg. The bigger 780 is 67kg, and the big beast 785 is 87kg!

I have never heard of the AWO gearbox. As I said before, you guys in Europe have the best goodies, all we have here in the US are Japanese bikes and Harleys! (also mostly made in Japan but don't tell anybody. I have a '76 Harley and I'd guess that half the parts are made in Japan.)

I've only seen the Hatz 71 and 79 in the US (of this series) they saw some use here on construction equipment mainly rollers and dirt compactors.

That "Hatz dieselchopper" is certainly an interesting bike, I like how the old Hatz engine "fits" the look of the rest of the bike. Thanks again for the information.

[Sphere]

What about Kubota and Kohler though? Aren't they manufacturers with big marketshare in the US? I guess it also boils down to how much money you wish to spend. Either buy a second hand genset or compactor or buy a new engine. I foolishly bought my engine without knowing if it would run (ebay UK), and I still have to hold my breath if it will actually run. Granted, it looks new, and all critical parts seem to work.

To put this in perspective though, I spent 2 years looking for a cheap Enfield chassis, and the same amount looking for the 1B40 or L100 Yanmar. Yanmars are more common place (still less than 5), the 1B40 I found twice, and its big brother the 1B50 once. I should have bought the 1B50 as well, but I didn't because I could not assess part interchangeability. In retrospect I would have gained electric start and probably electric bits (stator/rotor).

Ideally there would be a nice diesel graveyard with small watercooled twins needing a little work. I really wonder where all the old engines go after they have given their life flattening streets, mowing lawns etc. I will probably end up buying the stator/rotor new from Hatz, and possibly the counterbalance as well, if vibes are unbearable.

[smokyjoe]

I picked up my Hatz at an antique engine show from a guy who collects big, old diesels. It was too new (1977-1980) and too little for his tastes. I bought it from his wife for $100, he was asking $150 (he was gone away looking for other things to buy himself) but I guess she wanted it gone more than he did! But he was happy and loaded it into my car for me with a smile. When I finish my bike this Spring I am going to ride up to see his Diesel museum and give him another $25 since the engine runs so nice.

I bought a Kubota D950 engine that was taken out of a tractor, it only had a bad pinion gear in the differential but the guy scrapped the whole thing anyway. Then he left the completely disassembled tractor sitting outside all winter. The engine was lightly stuck with rust and I bought it for a cheap price. The guy I bought this from seemed to have some good connections for finding small diesels. I also bought a little Lombardini and a Deutz/Ruggerini from him, they are about 350cc/ 6 HP. Both were used to run generators that powered portable highway signs which are now solar powered. These seem to be fairly common here. Also he had an ancient aircooled Lister 2 cyl that weighs about 500 lb that I couldn't live without, that was also stuck with rust and I haven't looked into it yet but otherwise seems to be in good condition. The Lister powered a big old mud-sucking diaphragm pump that was used at a Veteran's hospital.

There are small diesels here in the US, although I don't think as many as in Europe but more and more things are becoming available in diesel. I wish there were more Diesel cars and small trucks available. The only pickup trucks with Diesels have monster V-8 engines. We had some small Volkswagen, Toyota, Datsun (Nissan) and Isuzu pickups with Diesels from about 1973 to 1980 but they all went away. I have a Diesel 1981 VW pickup that I am restoring, and also a 1985 VW Jetta sedan (I think called the Corrado in Europe back then?).

[TedV]

VW nut here

late 70's had some 1.5 NA diesels, after that till early 90's was 1.6 NA and turbo diesels, then came the 1.9 diesels. All in the US were 4cylinder. I am having dificulty figuring out a reliable transmision setup to use on them. My built autocross 1.6TD is putting out around 120hp at the crank. The after 2000 1.9 TDI had about 90HP stock but can be built to over 200hp and 350lbs/ft torque. They are NOT light by motorcycle standards, but I can get some power out of em and I have decent access to VW parts

The Corrado replaced the Scirocco. Over here it only had 1.8 super charged gasser, more of a sporty car. Jetta was called many things over seas, like Vento. It is the Golf with a trunk, small family sedan. My daily driver is a 98 Jetta TDI with 290K miles on it.

[smokyjoe]

I remember now, I rode in a Vento in Italy around 1990. It was probably the ONLY Automatic Diesel in Italy (or maybe even Europe) it belonged to a friend who lost a leg and couldn't drive a standard any more. My 1885 1.6 NA Diesel Jetta has over 500,000 miles and finally blew a head gasket, back on the road this Spring I hope!

Sounds like you have some machine there!

[smokyjoe]

My friend's name was Corrado, hence the mixup! Corrado in a Vento! I think almost all the VWs were named after a type of desert wind?

TedV, I'd love to know what you you guys do to keep these racing VW Diesels together! I've seen a fair number of the old 1.6's with bad head gaskets like mine. I finally got a new head for mine and hope to get it going again once it gets warmer. The head gasket leaked gases and soot into the coolant for about 200,000 miles, and it was a junkyard engine with 160,000 miles that cost me $300 and came with a restorable pickup! Finally it blew with much steam and noise, it was quite a sight. I have a total of over 500,000 miles on the car, the original engine died a premature death due to a bad injector- I had 3 of them tested and rebuilt when I bought the car, but the one that ended up squirting badly I couldn't get out until after it had burned a hole in the head and piston!

I don't think a VW engine would be too bad in a bike, I've read that those "production" V-8 Chevy powered bikes are very rideable. I guess if the center of gravity is low enough it'd work. There are a couple of VW powered bikes somewhere on this site that look pretty good. It'd be a head-turner, that's for sure! Especially if it was turbo'd.

[Sphere]

I think Heiko is looking to put a 1.2/1.4 (?) VAG engine in a bike, one of those modern lumps of aluminium. Wonder what happened to that project.

[TedV]

TedV, I'd love to know what you you guys do to keep these racing VW Diesels together! I've seen a fair number of the old 1.6's with bad head gaskets like mine.

use very good parts and make sure everything is spot on in spec. That being said, I jumped on the dyno too early and blew a 2" section of the head gasket out, that ultimately led to the destruction of the turbo. Redid head gasket and turbo and it's been holding 21 pounds of boost, but only rev to 5200 or 5300 and then shift. It quits pulling around 5700. figure it's better to use the torque and power down low and keep it reliable. Oh, sheared 2nd gear out of the transmission, but that trans has been run for 16 years mostly in autocross. Times I've driven it to events I average 37mpg US combined travel and autocross using a very low geared trans.

Back on bike stuff, I have a call in on a possible 4speed that might work for a 3 or 4 cyl VW car engine application. No clue on cost or if they will be available. The VW based engines Ive seen so far use something like the belt or chain drive to motorcycle trans (worry about side forces on crank and breaking them/locking up at speed) or I have seen a VW front wheel drive trans or maybe an Audi style trans. Problem there, it is not sequential shift and would need to remove hands from handle bar to shift gears. Thunderstar changed a lot of stuff to the VW engine to mate it up to the trans I thought. Anyone have contacts at Thunderstar to find out what all and how much it would cost to get just a trans? Since my grandparents died, no easy way for me to understand dutch.

My local VW shop is wanting me to build a 1.9TDI motorcycle BAD!!! Not the fuel economy I would like but sure could have some speed. I can get a 1.4TDI imported for around $5000 shipped. You folks in Europe don't know how good you have it on used diesel engines.

[Sphere]

Rev'ing a diesel to 5300rpm? OMG, you're a mad man.

[smokyjoe]

Wow! Wish I had the $$$, I'd just go the easy route and have YOU build me an engine! I guess the miles I got out of my 1.6 wasn't bad, it came out of the pickup that the junkyard guys drove around the yard for many months as a parts getter. It had a busted radiator and somebody removed the coolant tank so the head wasn't even full of coolant when they were taking it for short jaunts. The coolant started getting sooty as soon as I put it into the Jetta, but it ran really good and kept going for all those miles. I have a new head that is dead flat, so if the block deck is flat I'll be good to go.

Wish that a good transmission and drive (with the right ratios) for an inline engine could be found. I am almost considering the BMW/Dnepr box for the Kubota, but that project is way down the road right now.

I'd love to see that 1.9TDI bike, get working on it!

[pietenpol2002]

But 5300 RPM's is actually a bit low for the diesel tractor pullers here in the states. Many of them are turning in the 7000 RPM range, some higher. And many are very big engines with an incredible amount of spinning mass. Spend a bit of time on Youtube and watch the destruction when they come unglued. One of my favorites is an instance where the entire engine block parts company with the tractor and the rear wheels come up over the block before he can get stopped. They're of course required to employ scattershields. I still find myself unconsciously crouching at my computer as they spool up.

[IgorVigor]

Sorry to bring up an old post, but I noticed that it mentioned the Hatz E79

Does anyone know the difference between the E79 and the ES79 (they look the same)

also, are they fixed speed?

thanks...

[smokyjoe]

Hi Igor,

I have all the E(S) 79 manuals (operator's, parts, and maintenance) and it is not clear from any of them what the difference between the E and ES model is! (at least not clear to me )

My engine for the Hatzuki is an E79 and so marked, manual start with crank on the camshaft and power takeoff from the flywheel. I always thought (just a guess) that the S meant electric Starter, but probably not so. According to the books there are dozens of variations of drive output, starters, glow plugs etc.

My E79 has a speed control (throttle) but it varies the govenor speed by a lever from a slow idle to 3,000 RPM. The only drawback is that the lever is working against the govenor spring and flyweights so that it is somewhat hard to move and you'll probably need one of the "helper" levers on the throttle twist grip to keep from getting a sore wrist. I am trying to find a way to overcome this, not successful so far.

Another downside is that the cylinder fins are vertical (airflow is down from head to cyl. and out flywheel) and I don't think it will cool well without forced air cooling just hanging out in the breeze.

This engine is built like a tank, mine has ball and roller bearings throughout and they are, besides, a pretty cool looking engine too (at least in my opinion)

Have fun

[Sphere]

Perhaps you can modify the engine like Nanko did with my 1B40?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl_PwmQtvDE

[IgorVigor]

thats a clever idea Sphere

sadly, I missed the engine (sold before I got back to it )

I was told that the difference between the E and the ES is the ES has a shrouded starter shaft...
whether its true, I dont know...

Oh well...I will get a small diesel someday

[albertaphil]

Sphere,

Are you adding a tachometer to your engine? Even automotive diesels without a full-range governor (or regulator, as some may know it) have a rev-limiter. If you have bypassed the governor, I'm pretty sure that you are also eliminating your rev-limiter such that if you get really excited on a long downhill and forget your speed, you may end up destructively testing the absolute RPM limit of a 1B40. Did you bypass the governor for comfort reasons?

Phil

[Sphere]

Taking credit for fathering this mod would be unfair. All I noticed is that handling the original lever would be heavy. Nanko came up with this solution. I think the original lever can still be used (or rather must be) to set the max rpm. I suppose this will be sorted well soon before I start chasing Tiger Diesels downhill

[Nanko]

The governor still limits rpm (thats all it does)
On the movie the governor is the long lever .
The throttle is visible on the bottom/right.
A spring keeps the fuelpump in the idle position.
And the throttle lever varies fuel delivery gradually

[smokyjoe]

Interesting throttle modification. I think the same would be possible with the Hatz E79 by setting the govenor to the maximum allowed RPM and then having the throttle lever act on a spring to move the fuel rack for manual throttle, then the throttle lever would vary the fuel delivery rather than control the govenor RPM as it does now. The new throttle spring would have to be strong enough to move the rack but weak enough to be overridden by the govenor's flyweights. By looking at the govenor/pump mechanism in the manual it looks like it could be done. Thanks for the idea!

[junak]

I have never heard of the AWO gearbox

its from AWO Simson nice german one cylinder classic bike with shaft drive. I really like rat look of this diesel chopper, one of my favourites next to this one M72 diesel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnwpHkGo3iM

[smokyjoe]

+Another cool video, Nice!