O ring chains with split links

[oldbmw]

I just found a site selling O ring chains for Enfields, these have o rings fitted, and come with a split link that also uses o rings. Has anyone tried one of these and if so what were the results? was it better than the standard ones without o rings?

[Stuart]

Might be a good idea as the proper O ring chain tools are expensive. But I changed a chain the hard way and it's still on.

[Anorak_ian]

Surprisingly the Enfield chain is a 5/8x3/8 inch which is the same as a Harley Davidson 530 metric O ring Chain, also used on loads of Japanese bikes. They say the O ring keeps in the grease / oil and so the chain lasts longer as it is always lubricated, I still soak the chain in a bucket of oil though.

O ring chain tools?

A couple of useful links:

http://www.sprocketsunlimited.com/Index.html
http://www.jtsprockets.com

[sbrumby]

What you have to be carefull of is width. An O ring chain is much wider that an ordinary chain and a split link is wider still, make sure it misses everything.

[oldbmw]

Surprisingly the Enfield chain is a 5/8x3/8 inch which is the same as a Harley Davidson 530 metric O ring Chain, also used on loads of Japanese bikes. They say the O ring keeps in the grease / oil and so the chain lasts longer as it is always lubricated, I still soak the chain in a bucket of oil though.

O ring chain tools?

A couple of useful links:

http://www.sprocketsunlimited.com/Index.html
http://www.jtsprockets.com

Many thanks for the link to sprockets unimited. new to me information there. I now hope to get ao ring with split link to ride on, and carry my new old fashioned chain as a spare.

[andrewaust]

O ring chain pro's and con's ! I had to play the devils advocate


Pro's
They do last heaps longer, especially if you look after them by lubricating the rollers "which are the unprotected part" of the chain.

Sprockets also seem to last longer as the chain stretches a lot less "if using a quality chain"

Con's
They do take more HP out of the drive train as the O rings make the chain stiffer , spinning around the sprocket takes more effort.

If you need to replace the split link, you have to use something to compress the link before you place the locking clip on. OR! If in an emergency leave the O rings off.

They are wider "as previously stated in another post" so on some bikes tend to hit areas that a standard chain won't. Frames are one thing the chain can eat away on some bikes. Seen this on older dirt bikes. Most chain driven bikes now are designed to run O ring chains, so no problem.



A

[johnfireball]

As Andrew says they are a bastard to close the link with the o rings on.
John.

[Anorak_ian]

As Andrew says they are a bastard to close the link with the o rings on.
John.

They are more awkward but I don't find them that bad.
I grease up the rings to stop them moving and use a pair of mole grips (you can get them in long nose) to ease the plate in over the pegs then slide the clip on.
There are new rings these days z rings or k rings or some such name, they are a bit more fiddly than the o rings.
No matter what chain you have, carry a spare split link.

[oldbmw]

I have been digging deeper into this. Some of it sideways.
It seems the old 350's can run with a 94 pitch O ring chain. ( 4 speed box, no electric start)
The 500's could, but they use a 95 pitch chain, and odd pitch chains can't be had in o ring. So you would need to get a combination of sprockets that can use an even number of pitches in the chain. Gearbox sprockets can be had in any size so are no problem. The rear sprocket is a casting which also includes the brake drum, and is fixed in size. Hitchcocks do a machining job on the rear drum/sproket allowing you to use a separate bolt on sprocket. It can be had in the original size, or several steps up, each step being four more teeth.
The Electras are made wrong. Seems somebody at the design stage made a cock up with the drawings. As a result there is very little clearance between the gearbox sprocket and the back side of the inner primary chaincase. In fact so little clearance they have to leave the factory with the spring clip on the hub side facing the right, instead of being on the outside of the chain facing out. Otherwise the spring clip fouls the chaincase cover. Oddly there is stacks of room to the right of both sprockets. At some stage when I change my gearbox sprocket or take the chaincase apart for any other reason I will have a good look in there. I 'Think' It would be possible to offset both sprockets enough to install O ring chains.

[sbrumby]

I am sure you are right Larry But I must confess I dont understand odd & even pitch as if the back wheel adjusts backwards & forwards this takes up any slack.

[oldbmw]

I am sure you are right Larry But I must confess I dont understand odd & even pitch as if the back wheel adjusts backwards & forwards this takes up any slack.

Generally speaking chains are made up of pairs of links. this naturally give an even number of pitches. If you need a chain length that cannot be acommodated by an even number of links, the usual answer is to have an offset link. To fit a split link or otherwise join a chain is always done on the narrow ends with outer bits riveted or clipped on to make the chain endless. Any odd length chain has to have a cranked end. This apparently cant be done on o ring chains ( although I cant see why).
In my case the bike should have a 95 pitch chain,, IE needs an odd number of pitches. BUT the PO has fitted a one tooth bigger gearbox sprocket, so a new chain is really too tight. I ought to use a one pitch bigger (96) chain so I have the full range of adjustments. A standard 350 has 16 teeth on the gearbox sprocket. and standard classic 500 has 17 teeth. Electras have 18 as standard, mine has 19.
a 350 works fine with a 94 pitch chain, but this is too short for a 500 with a one tooth bigger sprocket so they use a 95 for the classic 500's. This same 95 pitch chain will also cope with the 18 teeth of an Electra. 19 Is just too many so a 96 link chain is needed.
But as you cant have a 95 (odd pitch) pitch o ring chain for the classic 500 or electra you have to have an even number of pitches. Therefore it will either start too tight, or end up too loose on the adjustments on the 500's and electras. So you need to change sprockets to get the ratio you want with an even number of chain pitches to use an o ring chain.
bit long winded way to explain, hope it helps.

[Anorak_ian]

I don't get what the problem is, if the chain fits go with it.
The Enfield swinging arm has enough adjustment room to take an extra tooth, if you use even bigger sprockets, just get a longer chain as they are widely available.

Odd and even links, offset links, this is a half link add-on for a chain that will not fit a bike that has had bigger sprockets fitted and the swinging arm / wheel has very little adjustment. Most bikes since the 1930's will have the necessary adjustment (take a link or add a link).

Half links are not available for O ring chains as they are not needed, as modern bikes are made with more than enough adjustment at the back wheel for almost any eventuality.

[sbrumby]

Yes I agree 1 1/2" of movement in back wheel adjustment gives 3" of chain adjustment, more than enough I would have thought.

[oldbmw]

Yes I agree 1 1/2" of movement in back wheel adjustment gives 3" of chain adjustment, more than enough I would have thought.

There is precisely 18mm of rear wheel adjustment on an Electra. This is enough for the 30mm wear in a standard chain. But does not leave enough room if the chain starts with the wrong number of pitches. Either it will start life new cramped, or run out of adjustment when worn.

[Anorak_ian]

Oh dear, I didn't realise that the frames were that different, have you thought about changing the swinging arm for a better one? The old Meteor and the Indian Enfield swinging arms are both 5cm / 2 inch of adjustment, it maybe worth while asking Hitchcock's if it can be done, and then get a cheap one of eBay.
Your other alternative is to get a chain with the half link built in to it (I imagine it would be half way down the chain) but of course as you say not an O ring chain.

Best of luck

[sbrumby]

Two links 5/8" iner and outer is only 32mm and two 18mm is 36mm not 30 so no matter where you start when you run out of adjustment you just loose two links and away you go.

[oldbmw]

Oh dear, I didn't realise that the frames were that different, have you thought about changing the swinging arm for a better one? The old Meteor and the Indian Enfield swinging arms are both 5cm / 2 inch of adjustment, it maybe worth while asking Hitchcock's if it can be done, and then get a cheap one of eBay.
Your other alternative is to get a chain with the half link built in to it (I imagine it would be half way down the chain) but of course as you say not an O ring chain.

Best of luck

The standard 500 bullet ( classic or electra) chain is 95 pitches. the cranked link is at the end, basically added after the chain has been cut. Both ends of a chain have to be 'inner' links so the split link can go outside.

Think changing swing arms might be problematical, but i dont know what type of swing arm bearing the older frames use. The Electra is a silentbloc rubber bush. I have to say I have not had an entirely successful record of getting advice from Hitchcocks and now whenever possible use watsonian squire.

[oldbmw]

Two links 5/8" iner and outer is only 32mm and two 18mm is 36mm not 30 so no matter where you start when you run out of adjustment you just loose two links and away you go.

It is true you could start with a chain that is too long, and remove some links when it was half worn, but I would rather start with the correct size chain, and just use the adjusments rather than cut out links. especially at the roadside whilst away for an extended trip. It costs the same to get the chain in the correct size as not.
I guess the two inches of adjustment on the older bikes give much more leeway. I was a bit shocked to find a one tooth bigger sprocket was so critical on my electra. Years ago on my Triumph 500 I used a one tooth bigger sprocket and had no adjustment issues with the standard chain.

I am not entirely sure what to do at the moment, as I like to carry a good spare chain, and was about to buy one. Even with abandoningthe O ring idea for my electra I still have a dilemma. If I buy a 96 pitch chain it will run perfectly with the big sprocket, but I want to change this sprocket whenever a suitable opportunity arises. I may even force the issue next spring. Probably not bother to get one until then, as I dont normally do a great mileage during winter. Think to have a new sprocket and chain, and carry my existing one which will only be half worn or less by then and should be ok as a 'get me home chain'.