Ruggerini stator?

[Anorak_ian]

Hi all, I'm in need of an alternator stator for my Ruggerini rd211 / rd210,
as the ohms reading between the cables says it's a short.

If anyone knows where one can be had I would be grateful.

Cheers
Ian

[IgorVigor]

Cant you simply rewind it yourself?

then if you wanted, you could wind it a bit more for more power...

[Anorak_ian]

Well, I did think of rewinding it, but I haven't done it before, I don't suppose many people have.
If I could find one at a reasonable price it would be a lot easier.

[tappy]

I've never seen any "reasonably priced" Ruggerini or Lombardini spares.
If you don't want to re-wind it yourself (reasonable) then there are plenty of places that will re-wind it for you. Last time I had one done for a motorbike it cost me about £40..

[Anorak_ian]

I guess I'm going to have to do the job myself, as Dieselpower want £150 for one. I can get one from Italy for £80 inc, but still too much.

Any idea where to get a roll of magnet wire and epoxy resin in the uk?

[IgorVigor]

If you dont want to do it yourself, have a look for places that will rewind it for you (as tappy said)

as for the wire, I dont know...
last time I rewound a stator, I used a roll that was sitting in the shed...

[Mouse]

I've rewound stators for modern bikes and I'm sure they are more tricky than what you have.

You can get winding wire from Maplins on 1/2kg reels but if you need a different diameter or advice then call Scientific Wire
http://www.scientificwire.com/
I've used them before and even though they are a bit more expensive you get a better service. ie the last wire I bought from them, was 2mm diameter and I gave them specific instruction to coil it on a loose coil so it would not be kinked and damaged by winding it tightly around a small spool (just like in the Instructable below). They had this sort of request before and gladly obliged.

If you want inspiration and practical advice then check out this Instructable someone has done.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Rebuild ... ve-stator/

If you tackle it yourself then be sure to make diagrams and clear notes and photos to your self about how the windings went, where they started and ended and which direction the wire wound in etc. Trust me that you wont remember even the simplest bit of it when you come to wind on the new wire especially if you unwind it and then have to wait 10 days for your new wire to arrive.

Note that the stated diameter of the wire doesn't include the coating

[Mouse]

Just re read your first post.
The Stator winding will most probably only have a resistance of a few ohms to start with and depending on your meter could appear as a dead short.

[Anorak_ian]

Thanks for your help, the meter reading is .000 the same if I touch the meter leads together.

[smokyjoe]

Hi Anorak_ian,

Just make sure that your meter is on the lowest Ohms scale, (maybe 10 Ohms or 100 Ohms?) otherwise you'll read a "direct short" with almost anything on your bike! If so, and it is good you may read a few tenths of an Ohm. Look for shorts near where the leads attach to the windings proper, and check that a winding hasn't "crept" over the insulating paper or plastic covering the laminations in the core shorting against the laminations. If it is a 3 phase alternator (3 leads) measure between each lead, A to B, B to C and A to C. All readings should be the same or VERY close. Also check from one of the leads to the core laminations, if this is like a normal stator it will measure infinity (no reading). Also check from one of the wires to the laminations on the higher scales, it should also read open or infinity.

Many times with some careful coaxing a short can be found and "fixed" if it is a winding that you can get at and place a little piece of stiff paper underneath or tape. Of course, if it has been overheated and the insulating varnish has been fried off the windings, it is time to rewind it or get a new one. The inner windings you can't see are the ones that run the hottest since they aren't out in the breeze.

By the way, the piece is probably made by Magneti Marelli in Italy (I did some work for them 20 years ago-). They are owned by (or own) guess who? LUCAS THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS, THE SCOURGE OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE, AND THE ONE CUSSED BY EVERY BRITISH CAR OR BIKE OWNER! -

My Grandparents were from Plymouth, I guess they didn't like it either since they moved to Montreal, Canada in 1920! My cousin lived there all her life until about 4 years ago, she and her husband packed up and moved to Ireland. Must have been something besides the weather.

Good luck

[Anorak_ian]

Even a bunch of holy Joes left Plymouth in favour of doing battle with a bunch of blood thirsty savages. When you think that their religion says "Thou shall not kill", they gladly risked the wrath of God and eternal damnation, rather than stay in Plymouth.

[Mouse]

Just looked up the spec of your meter the Rapitest DM 10. and it is a budget meter and looks like its resistance range goes down to 1 ohm. (See NOTE)
The stator resistance will be less then a ohm, probably closer to 1/4 ohm and the test leads will add significantly to this. Is short your meter is not capable of detecting the subtleties of a short in a winding with such a low resistance. But all is not lost. There is no short to earth which is a good thing.

Is there any area of the windings that appear heat damaged? I cant tell from the reduced size of the photos.

Did you check the output of the stator when the engine was running. ie put the meter to AC Volts and check the reading with the output not connected to anything.
I'm guessing there are permanent magnets in the rotor??
Is it easy to put back and test with the engine running. If there is no obvious physical damage to the stator this would be a good place to start fault finding.




NOTE: I looked at over 10 different websites selling the Rapitest DM 10 and they all listed a specification of 1hz to 20000hz for the resistance range which doesn't fill me with confidence.

[Nanko]

Another way to test the stator is apply some DC current
at the connections
A 12V battery with a headlamp in serie to limit the current.
Check all yokes for magnetism with a piece of iron.

[Mouse]

Top Tip!
I'll have to remember that one.

[Anorak_ian]

Well I have tried it with another multimeter called Kino, but still nothing.

However I have tried the Nanko trick, and all yokes were magnetic!

So tomorrow I'm going to bung it back on the bike, and again try the output with the Kino meter.

Any more tricks Nanko?

[Anorak_ian]

Did you check the output of the stator when the engine was running. ie put the meter to AC Volts and check the reading with the output not connected to anything. I'm guessing there are permanent magnets in the rotor??

Yes it read on a scale of bugger all, it was the budget meter though. Yes, erm well, I'm going to take a good long look at the rotor before re fitting it.

Thank you for all your help

[Nanko]

You can check stator output wit the same headlamp
But be carefull with rpm , voltage is unregulated.

[Anorak_ian]

And it will no doubt be better than the multimeter

[smokyjoe]

With that spec of "down to 1 Ohm" does that mean that the least signifigant digit is one Ohm? Or is it one Ohm full scale on that range. That is probably the problem, as you say. I doubt that the meter will read any less than 1 Ohm, usually the leads alone will read a few hundredths, maybe a couple of tenths if there is some corrosion or crud on the test prods which yours doesn't seem to do. The headlight across the stator wires with the engine running is a really good test, it'll not only give a good indication of the voltage it will also give an idea of the amount of current (Amps) the stator will put out. Don't forget that the faster the engine revs, the higher the output with no regulator, but I doubt you'll burn out the headlight. It'll just get bright as heck if all is OK.

If it lights well, it's off to testing the rectifier/regulator. What joy.

Yea, I use a cheap meter 99% of the time, better have it fall off your bonnet and then drive over a $2.99 bargain outlet meter than a $300 Fluke! (did that once, I still keep the remains in my tool box as a reminder)

[IgorVigor]

reg/recs are fine as long as they arent honda

[Anorak_ian]

It looks like stator may have been fitted the wrong way round by the previous owner, and the leads have been shorting out on the engine.
Lets hope that is all it was.
If it's a reg/rec that has gone I'll just use one off an Enfield as they are cheap as chips.

[Mouse]

reg/recs are fine as long as they arent honda

And there we me gearing up so suggest a Superdream regulator / rectifier as a cheap robust replacement once it was clarified that there was power coming out of the stator! .

[IgorVigor]

are the superdream reg/rec's reliable :S

most honda reg/rec's are naff...
even to the point that on the VTR the common replacement is the Yamaha R1 reg/rec :O

[Anorak_ian]

All back together and we have power, thank you all.

One last thing, the reg/rec is old Ruggerini and the markings on it are: G, G, R, B+, L, C. Which is different to the diagrams that I have. On the new reg/rec's all wires are on the left, Alternator Alternator Battery, which is how mine was when I bought it, but I'm beginning to wonder if it should be B+ to the battery.

Anyone know for sure?

[Mouse]

are the superdream reg/rec's reliable :S

It is very highly regarded and the first choice replacement for those who live in ratbike land.

[smokyjoe]

I'd give an educated guess that B+ is "Battery, Plus" as is in "normal" electrical and electronic nomenclature. You should be able to test this by the previously recommended "headlamp test". If you connect the lamp from B+ on the regulator to ground and measure the voltage across the lamp terminals, the voltmeter should read about 13.8 to 14.4 Volts, and it should read roughly the same with a smaller (tail) lamp if this is the regulated "battery +" terminal. All this with the engine running at a fair clip, of course.

The described regulator sounds much the same as the one on a Deutz (Ruggerini) "ECO 75" engine I have that I think is about 360cc/ 6HP. I haven't yet begun to fiddle around with it, though.

[Anorak_ian]

Gents, I need your help a little more.

The Ducati Ruggerini reg/rec is dead.
Also as I was going to use an Enfield reg/rec, I have taken a look on Hitchcock's website in their technical pages and they recommend an aftermarket reg/rec as the oem Indian Enfield job throws too much power in to the battery.
As my battery costs around £120 I'll give that one a miss.

I do have a Kawasaki GPX600 reg/rec (shindengen sh555-12 7.5) it has two rows of 3 pins (6 in total).
Anyone have any idea what pins go where?


The GPX600 used a three phase alternator (3 wire), from what I have read on the Kawasaki forums there should be no problem in using a single phase alternator (2 wire) with it. Hopes.

Thanks for your help.

[smokyjoe]

You should be able to find the service manual somewhere on the net to download, which will have a wiring diagram. I paid $10 for a "bootleg" download for my Suzuki GS550 (Suzuki factory service manual, really nice PDF scan with indexing), had a hard drive crash and lost it, then found another of the same for $5!

Find out which 3 pins were for the stator on the Kaw, then just use any 2 of the 3 for your 2 wire (single phase) alternator. It is probably a 3 phase full wave rectifier, you just won't be using one leg of it (leave that pin open, not connected to anything). That should work. Probably 3 pins for stator wires, ground, battery plus, and ignition switch connection on regulator, just gotta find which is which! This is a good trick little battery gauge that will help keep an eye on things to help save that expensive battery giving you an idea if it is overcharging or undercharging:

http://www.customdynamics.com/LED_batte ... d_Chargers_

Most of the bike shops have these in the US, I'm sure that they are available all over the globe. Good luck

[Anorak_ian]

I have asked Kawasaki uk and shindengen uk, but as yet no reply.
The Plymouth City reference library doesn't have a manual and I can't fine one on the net, if I could find one I don't think it would have the pin info of the reg just what colour wires that go to it as a unit.

Ping! I have had a thought, diodes only flow in one direction, having seen a shemetic -shematik - shamatic, having seen a picture of the guts of one of these things, there's loads of diodes in them...... Out with the multi meter.

Thanks for the volt meter link, good idea.

Cheers Ian

[thundercougarfalconbird]

kawasaki color code for regulators

black = ground
white = fused dircet to battery
brown or tan = key switched power
yellow(s) = ac input from stator