Possible transplant-able engines

Guzziguy · Post by **Guzziguy** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:34 am

Hi,

I'm new to the list. I'm in Japan and I'm interested in putting a diesel engine into either a V35 Guzzi, a loop frame Guzzi, or another older bike but I'm not sure what engine would be best.

Here are three engines for sale on the Japanese auction website:

http://page16.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u10384184

http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n53388992

I'm 185# and 6'3" tall. How big of a bike would the 5.5 kw engines pull- I would hope to find a bike that was lighter than an Enfield. There are a whole host of aluminum framed bikes around here that could offer up a pretty good light frame.

The Kubota Z600 engine is 570cc and is rated at 12hp/ 2800rpm. I was thinking this might power a Guzzi...

What do you folks think? Water or air cooling? Light and small or heavy and big? What about prices? What are reasonable prices for these engines used?

Thanks for your time.

Jeff Anderson

The

Post by **Byrdman** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:23 pm

Hi Jeff and welcome.

I personally like the powerful/heavy route but I'm 6'-3" and just a tad over 300 pounds so light has never been in my vocabulary!

I would think that a project destined for Japanese roadways should be small and very maneuverable. A small air-cooled bike would be simpler and possibly cheaper as well.

I'm sure one of the air cooled boys will chime in here but I would think that 5.5KW might be a little light. The small Yamar link you posted was a L-50 and they are pretty darn small. Here in the states, the slightly smaller L-48 is used as a rammer engine and it puts out around 4.5HP.

http://www.concrete-catalog.com/mikasa_ ... t-86d.html

Anorak_ian · Post by **Anorak_ian** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:13 pm

Hi Jeff,
Air cooled is less fuss, no radiator and less chance of water getting in to the engine. A water cooled engine is quieter though.

2800rpm? Very slow, go for a 3600rpm or better if you can get it, the weight of the engine should be the same but you will get more power and definitely more speed with higher revs.

I think you will regret building a bike with an n engine that is less than 10hp.

oldbmw · Post by **oldbmw** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:03 pm

Anorak_ian wrote:Hi Jeff,

I think you will regret building a bike with an n engine that is less than 10hp.

I have come to the conclusion that i need abike with 18hp or more.. and at that power level the electra is nearly as fuel efficient as a diesel.

Guzziguy · Post by **Guzziguy** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:12 am

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I knew deep in my heart of hearts that these engines lacked power. I can't afford to import an engine into Japan from Europe. The Robin engines don't seem to be sold here which leaves me with agricultural engines Kubota, Mitsubishi, Yanmar, or car/ truck engines Mitsubishi, Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu.

I just wish I could source the engines you folks are using here- there are thousands of 550-600cc- 1000 gas engined cars here, but there are no diesels in that size- as far as I can see.

The choices I have for power are water cooled Yanmars most in the 6- 7 hp range- big and heavy, with a 1800 rpm limit, some tractor and combine engines (Kubota, Yanmar, Mistubishi, ect.) which seem to be 600- 700 cc with fairly low max rpm not to mention heavy!

I'll keep looking!

GG

andrewaust · Post by **andrewaust** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:09 am

Hi Jeff - welcome to the forum

If your limited with engine choice you might like to look at the L100 air cooled Yanmah engine. I'm running the clone version in my bike at the moment.

It seems reliable enough, although I could do with a few extra horses at times. The engine puts out 10hp and is 406cc in displacement.

I'm 5.8 and weigh 70kg's (11 stone), so from experience you wouldn't want to go for an engine with less hp as I feel you would really be disappointed with the power output = or lack off

Top speed for me on a good day is around 95 K's, you may get more if fitted to a lighter bike with higher gearing, but guess 110 would be max for an engine of 10hp.

First point of call would be to check what requirements are needed for pollution etc for registration and take it from there, as I've heard they are very strict in Japan.

Cheers

Andrew

Darren · Post by **Darren** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:52 am

I recently noticed Kabota do some small engines.

They are generally indirect injection and liquid cooled. They would be good candidates for reliably running on vegetable oil (as would the HDT engine).

www.elsbett.com even offer conversion kits for some of the Kabota engines that would provide very relaible veg oil operation....

Not sure how the power/weight ratio stacks up for these engines however.

Best

Darren

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:09 am

Darren wrote:They would be good candidates for reliably running on vegetable oil (as would the HDT engine).

I saw the HTD during warm up a couple of months back, it had a hard time just running on petro diesel fuel. It belched blue smoke as it sat next to HDT's dyno room door, thought at first it was a 2 stroke engine. (JUNK)

Dave

Darren · Post by **Darren** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:13 am

Interesting Dave,

I guess the HDT engine could do with some more refinments then?

The Kabota engines use glow plugs which provide the heat required for good cold starting (but would require a reasonably sized battery) Also the combustion chamber design has been refined over the years to a configuratuion that provides good combustion. Does the HDT engine use a glow plug? (could not find any reference)

The also use a flat cut pintle injector that provides a small preinjection which is good for both running on veg and noise reduction...

Best

Darren

JohnO · Post by **JohnO** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:48 pm

I picked the Daihatsu 3-cylinder, 1.0 liter engine for my Guzzi conversion. It's going into a 1976 convert, chosen for easy chassis modification and tallest final drive ratio. I've conversed with two BMW riders who used the same engine, and have learned from their experience. 26.5 hp/3600rpm = 72 mph. Redline is 4100, so it should be happy at highway cruise speeds.
Cheers,
JohnO

Anorak_ian · Post by **Anorak_ian** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:15 pm

JohnO, is the Daihatsu engine out of a car? If it is, it dosen't seem very powerfull.

JohnO · Post by **JohnO** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:07 pm

Here in the states they're sold by Briggs and Stratton as lawn mower engines. I bought mine from Tulsa Engine Supply. 26hp is plenty of power for a small European car.

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:13 pm

I think there might be some confusion, Briggs & Stratton sells the 3LC Daihatsu industrial engines, and the Charade Daihatsu is an SOHC 1 liter, not at all the same.

JohnO · Post by **JohnO** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:18 pm

Thanks Locomotive, for the correction. Anyone have any ideas what other applications the Briggs/Daihastu engine is used in?

LocomotiveBreath · Post by **LocomotiveBreath** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:00 am

Where do you want me to start?
1. water truck pony motor (water pump)
2. Husqvarna Mowers http://www.husqvarna.com/
3. Toro Mowers http://www.toro.com/
4. My Motorcycle (34 hp turbo) http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/lsr21/supercharged.html
5. 8 wheel drive ATV's
6. Kawasaki Diesel Mules http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/SubCategory.aspx?id=15

Need I go on, I have some spare parts for the 950 non-turbo
Dave

oldbmw · Post by **oldbmw** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:51 pm

Either way, I had a Triumph speed twin which was good for nearly 90mph, with 27hp. so i would expect the 26.5hp engine with the right gearing to be good for a generous 80mph.

floridacyclist · Post by **floridacyclist** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:13 pm

In my case, I'm looking at the possibility of the B&S Vanguard (I think it's the same one y'all are talking about from Daihatsu) at http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... 826_405826. It seems like such a perfect match for my Suzuki Water Buffalo with a frozen engine as long as I can get it to fit in somehow and connect the engine to the tranny. I would think I would want to up the final drive ratio a bit as the 2-stroke in the Suzuki is pretty revvy.

Thoughts? Any other 3-cyl or so diesels I should be looking at? Is the automotive Daihatsu a better choice or? Any help or info is appreciated.

Gene

JohnO · Post by **JohnO** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:49 pm

The Northern Tool-listed Vanguard is the same engine. Tulsa Engine Warehouse also sells them, which is where I bought mine, significantly cheaper. Good service, also spare parts, manuals, etc.
I wasn't able to track down the engineering interface drawings, which has complicated making the adapter plate, but I've solved the alignment problem by other means.

floridacyclist · Post by **floridacyclist** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:56 pm

Interesting. I'm visiting a greenskeeper-supply store in Micanopy, FL next weekend and he deals in used commercial gardening equipment. He says that he has several small tractors and mowers and such that have outlived their engines, so I'm going to be snooping around and seeing what they have.

oilburner · Post by **oilburner** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:26 pm

You can get an engineering drawing of the end plate titled Std. Endplate & Flywheel by fax from Briggs and Stratton. The drawing does not show all the bolt holes in the engine block. I suspect they can also provide a drawing showing the rear of the engine block.

An easy way to make an alignment tool is to machine a stub shaft for the flywheel. The bolt circle in the flywheel for the stub shaft flange is shown on most of the sales literature and installation manuals. Or you can buy a stub shaft for a couple hundred dollars. I used a push fit bushing with a stub shaft to perfectly align a BMW gearbox on my Daihatsu engine.

There are two styles of endplates available, very similar in design, as well as a couple KTR bell housings which would probably suit most installations.

If you contact Briggs and Stratton, please keep in mind the following statement which appears on page 2 of the engine Operating & Maintenance Instructions documentation from the company:

You should also understand that there are equipment applications for which Briggs and Stratton does not approve the use of its engines. Briggs and Stratton engines are not to be used on vehicles with less than 4 wheels. They include motorbikes, aircraft products, and All Terrain Vehicles.

FYI

Avery

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