new member, new ideas (probably wrong) but i got to ask :p

[SirDiesel]

Hey guys, new here but I've got a few ideas i wanted to run by you all.

Saw a thread with a little morgan based kit car, someone was saying those cry out for a small diesel engine, I agree completely, some of the light kit cars would be phenomenal with a small diesel.. this is something I may work on in the future.

But for now i'm working on two wheels, looking to build myself a motorcycle for the road, but preferably with off road bike looks/geometry. I'm thinking japanese trial bike or (this i prefer) an old BSA scrambler. I'm currently reading the project log of someone who is restoring a late 50s BSA B31 scrambler and i like it much.

Don't know much about the science of engine swappery with bikes, like, can this frame take this engine, or how much conventional motorcycle engines weigh, etc.

Looking at the Kubota OC95, single cylinder, iDi, triple vortex, 8.5bhp (actually 8.5ps in the manual, continuous @ 3600rpm) 416cc air cooled lump at 56kg dry weight.. but don't know how that stacks up against the twins other people use.. i'm looking at donor frames that when complete with original engine weigh around 100kg - yamaha DT, etc if it's a japanese donor.

could that engine be of use in a roadgoing conversion? or do you guys know of any good diesels that could be used in that kind of frame? the idea is to create a super economical, rugged like a battletank, fairly light and responsive handling diesel bike.. i'd like a 70mph cruise if possible but i'm not bothered if i'm stuck in the mid-late 50s.. will just use the backroads

I'd like it to run on clean veg oil if possible, don't mind doing a twin tank, am interested in the old bsa's (350cc originally) due to tax exemption *yorkshireman*

Diesel bikes are a new idea to me, so i'm very enthusiastic but lacking in any experience.. help a new OBSESSED DIESEL BIKE-MAN

[coachgeo]

welcome to the site and welcome to the world of Disel Bike obsession.

Sorry I can't give any advice on your scrambler project. Don't know that much myself yet

On the veg fuel side can offer a little. I am also thinking veg. From nearly 10yrs of following that world have learned you want to conisder engine design. Anything with more of an indirect injection (swirl/pre chamber )design is what your goal is unless your a biodieseler. Or a very deep cupped piston design (which is in effect a swirl chamber too)

Me. Im nuts. Im thinking of running a blend high in Veg content in an IDI engine. Will get bike to full operating temperature BEFORE I even start the bike. To do this am going to install small camp propane bottle. It will fuel a small homebrewed coolant & fuel heater. Hour before I start the bike at home (Im off the grid at home) or If I sit in a parking lot at a motel over night for example, will fire up LP heater to bring bike engine up to full temp. For the same purpose, a small Electirc 110v coolant heater will also be installed and used at work or anywhere I can plug up. Will also warm fuel some with a small FPHE while riding. If needed, when ever the engine coolant is inefficent to raise fuel temps while riding or ideling... will have a 12v inline fuel heater installed too.

now.. prob. is... I cant find an engine I can afford. Also need 70mph or I will get run over on local highways which ARE BACK ROADS. Shooting for 3cy 950cc Turbo diesel Diahatsu (Briggs and Stratten here in US)

[SirDiesel]

Aye definitely a vegger not a biodieseler.. have run twin tank on a land rover in the past, currently run blends in my Peugeot van. However I have run biodiesel 100% as starting diesel and blended, but only as starting fuel and only when I can find it significantly cheaper than dinofuel - which isn't often round here, a few p a litre cheaper at most

I'm guessing the main issue with diesel bikes is finding a frame tough enough to take the heavier, torquey diesel lump, but yet light enough to be powered by it.. then finding a diesel engine light enough to go in a bike but powerful enough to power it..

not easy, i'm learning. Just been looking at Lombardini engines rather than Kubota, they seem to be somewhat more powerful for a similar engine size - an extra bhp or so on the ~400cc singles, didn't check whether it was Di or iDi though. It's getting there as we're talking 10bhp... a lot of the motorcycles I have been looking at lately don't have any more than that as standard, or not much more if they do.. 125s mostly, i'm looking for similar performance but superior mpg and reliability.

these 400ish cc singles seem to be around 50kg weight. Lombardini don't give any specs but i can't imagine it'll be much heavier, could be lighter as Kubota do make a 38kg OC series but it's only ~300cc.

Got to find a frame! I'm going to look at a DT125 on tuesday that i was going to buy for another project, don't know how heavy a DT engine is but i can always whack it on the scales as the bike i'm looking at is partially stripped. Would have thought that of all motorcycle frames a trial bike would have the toughest so it's a possibility but as i've said i've no experience so i really don't know.. what do you guys think?

SD

[SirDiesel]

ha im obviously cracking up, forget i asked that

[SirDiesel]

so that dt125 & cg bits turned out to be a lifan 125 with a cg clone engine

Yeah, anyway so i've been looking around, reading on here, looking at the private conversions on the front page, seems people use smaller engines than the ~400-450cc ish i was looking at (9-10hp continuous) but get slower speeds than i was really aiming for... if i build it, I want it to be sensible to go touring on as well as a daily hack, able to go long at 60 as a minimum, preferably 65

Definitely single cylinder engine is the win for me if i can get that performance though, some of the former 250cc petrol bikes on the front page interest me - I was just looking at an old zuki GS250 frame thinking it'd make a great rat scrambler/stripped style bike.. the frame i saw was just the rolling frame so sat quite high, which really suits it imo.. you know those times you look at some raw material for a project and the picture of the finished article just rolls out like a luscious red carpet of sweetness across the mind?

not big on the whole rat scene, where people intentionally make their work look like that.. if that's your cup'o'tea then its all good but not for me.. there's a line between bitsa and rat and i definitely sit on the side of the clean, minimal eye candy, simple look.. rats are cool but nah

What do i need to look out for for good mpg figures? I want this to be a showcase of the sheer outright brilliance of the diesel engine, so i need good mpg plus i'm a tight git hehe

[albertaphil]

Well Sir, I think your estimation of the tradeoffs in this whole diesel bike thing is about the same as mine with regards to power vs. weight vs. being proud of what you're riding. With the open roads in Canada and the mountains out my back door, I can't get excited about 10hp or less.

At this point anyone who has read my other posts will start rolling their eyes now, as I start talking about the Ruggerini MD series or their Lombardini twins. I just can't get past the fact that an MD151 is no heavier than a yanclone L100, but it makes 6hp more in a package that is only marginally larger physically than the 1cyl lump. The MD has variable injection timing (at least the one I have) and runs quiet and smooth at all rpms. They are harder to come by, though. If you have a frame large enough, the MD191 has 19 hp and is only an inch wider and an inch taller and 3kg heavier than the MD151 (53kg vs 50kg.) Dave's Ruggerfield has an MD191 I think. Either of these engines with a CVT or modified shifter trans. shouldn't be that much heavier than what you pull out of your donor bike, although any 2 stroke under 200cc will likely be much lighter than what you're planning on putting in.

I have an MD151 (16hp) and a Comet 94C/90D primary/secondary CVT combo all ready to go...I just need a Honda Nighthawk 450 frame to put it in. I like the styling of the nighthawk, my engine/trans should fit without too much frame modification, and the weight and size should be about right to get me an honest 65mph (fingers crossed:-). From anything I've read, 10hp won't get you more than 55mph real world, and it will take you a while to get there. There are some really good threads on hp and speed calculations. Search them out. Guys on this forum have done some serious testing and calculation for power, speed and fuel economy. Real experience and wisdom.

Phil

[roverthetop]

my kwaker build:
http://www.dieselbike.net/currentconver ... rsions.htm
was set up for svo. rh tank, veg, lh tank bio-d.
any way i can help, let me know.
b

[SirDiesel]

WHOA i was under the impression a twin cylinder would be heavier than a single, but the ruggerini MD151 is 7kg lighter than the kubota OC85/95s at 50kg

Ruggerini quote 12.6hp for the 3000rpm MD150 and 16.3hp for the 3600rpm MD151.. Anyone know what the fuel consumption's like on them? its one of my main criteria

definitely that 16hp ruggerini sounds like what i should be after if i can only find a frame that suits what i want and is strong enough to take the extra iron, could even go for the larger MD191.. we're definitely getting there.

I want this motorcycle to be a mix between commuter and tourer. If i'm running on veg oil, svo is about £0.80 a litre, but can buy 1micron filtered WVO for about £0.40-50 per litre - Can't get oil free or cheaper than that round here. So i'll be wanting good mpg for cheapness and for range. Ideally as large a range as possible, been looking at tanks around the 4 imperial gallon range. Should this build be a success I will be using it as daily transport, plus a good number of long trips around the UK and Europe. I'm the kind of tight fisted sod who if i can get fuel at 40 pence a litre, i'll want to do my whole journey in and outbound on the original fill so i don't have to buy anything more expensive en route(i won't skimp on cost of parts though, quality stuff only). The minimum range this vehicle must have to one fill is 500 miles, be it in one tank or me having to carry some extra fuel.. really 150mpg is the target but anything above that is extra "this is why i own a diesel bike" points when i'm laughing at the people who laughed at me for owning a diesel powered motorcycle I know people will laugh, all my friends have laughed at this idea, some of them a lot, but i relish this laughter, for i shall be laughing last and louder.

It is my ambition to put 100,000 miles on this motorcycle. At this point, I shall tally up build, fuel, parts, servicing etc costs and see how much it has cost me per mile to ride this miracle to end all miracles

[albertaphil]

Sir, you can download the ruggerini workshop manual...it has all the specs you're looking for. Any of the MD engines have a specific fuel cons. of 246g/kwh. The key here to figuring out expected mpg is how much power you think it will take to run you at a given speed. The pros on the forum figure that 60mph will take a full 10hp, depending on how aerodynamic your ride is. By the ruggerini specs and other people's experience, I'm not expecting any more than about 110mpg (that's imperial gallon, BTW) at highway speed. I think my actual calculation was 114mpg, but I rarely get "predicted" results when I drive like I normally do, whether in a car or anything else. If you ran at 50mpg, you would likely get your 150mpg. If you don't, you should still be laughing since my sister's Shadow 750 get's 50mpg if she's lucky, and her husband's VTX gets 40. Doubling the fuel economy of anything else of a similar size seems gloat-worthy to me.

Phil

[SirDiesel]

Hmm. At the price i can get veg oil for, 100mpg is still the equivalent of about 220mpg from anything i would have to put petrol in.. nothing can get near that not even a 125 commuter with all the modern sipping gizmos. a plan is starting to come together.. the custom frame work is a daunting thought.. much practice needed i think before attacking an actual frame i intend to use

[SirDiesel]

hmm just shows what turns up when you look hard enough..

I've found a project..ahem.. trike that's REALLY cool and i've bought it, absolutely love this thing as it is, perfect perfect perfect.

Its power source is a fiat 126 engine/transaxle, the early 23hp 600 rather than the 26hp 700cc.. it's decently fast as is and of course economical but i've been truely bitten by the diesel bike bug, the first thing i thought was "hmm, wonder if a diesel'll fit that"

perhaps this isnt the best place to ask being as it's cage mechanicals but does anyone know of a diesel engine that has similar power to the fiat lump and would be more economical? it'd have to mount to the fiat transaxle.. i'm toying with the idea of converting the existing engine to lpg instead.. if there isn't much in it, i'll go for the latter option but if i can get say 20+ mpg more out of a diesel, it'd be worth doing the swap

[smokyjoe]

I don't know how easy they are to come by where you are, but I picked up a little Kubota 950 3 cyl water cooled, 25 HP that is light enough that I can lift it, brought it and a little Deutz/Ruggerini 360cc? home in the back seat of my car. I'm sure the specs are on the web somewhere. There is a download manual on the web, search this forum for the link. It has a conventional auto type flywheel and looks easy to mate up to about anything with a little adapter plate and some ingenuity. I paid $200 US for it less starter and alternator, and it was lightly "stuck" with very slight rust in a cylinder but turns over fine now. They are available in perfect condition used around here (northeast US) for around $1000 US, but if you could find a clunker lawnmower or tractor with one I'm sure it would be cheaper. Mine came out of a tractor that had a bad differential and the original owner took the engine out and the whole transmission apart before finding out the problem was just the differential! I guess he lost interest in putting it all back together.

I plan on putting the Kubota in a Honda CB1000c frame I have with a Comet 94c CVT, making a hopefully comfy cruiser/chopper that will maybe tool along at 70 MPH? I hope but that's a "future" project. In the mean time still working on a Suzuki GS550 with a Hatz E79 one cyl. machine for backroads commuting to work and play, dubbed the Hatzuki!

Good luck, ride safe and have fun. That trike sounds like it's pretty cool, post some pictures!

[SirDiesel]

or not.. just ran some numbers.. hmm.. stuck with the numbers at the mo.. these industrial engines dont seem very economical once you get to the larger capacities ~1L.. back to drawing board