Hatz internal oil filter

[nicknick109]

Can anyone advise or help please ? I have a Charnwoods Hatz 1B30 (347cc) diesel engine RE.I change the oil on a regular basis but to get at the internal oil filter requires major upheaval.My question is how often do I need to clean it and what is the best way to get to it, engine out to the right or can I undo the frame bolts and drop it down (after removing the primary chain case and chain.) I have thought of using a high pressure sprayer on my compressor and using white spirit spraying into the drain plug hole.
Thanks any help.
Nick

[Stuart]

Hi Nick,
welcome to the forum This is a question that has been worrying me as well. I've never dropped my engine down to take out my filter either.

Ps. I think there is another Ardingly bike jumble/show soon if you're interested

[nicknick109]

Stuart,
hi and thanks for the reply.As you have done a whole shed load more miles than me(just reached 10000kms) I suppose I will be ok with the filter for a few more miles yet. Yep spotted the Ardingly show and the weather seems to be looking ok so if you are going will look out for you.
All the best Nick

[andrewaust]

Hi guy's


If the Hatz filter is anything like the L100 Yanmar, I know it can be a pain in the U-know=WHAT to get too.

With a new engine it's a good idea to check the filter after the first 1000 - 2000 Kilometres.

The reason for this, you can get an idea of how well the engine has run itself in and most importantly, it also lets you know if anything is not right "If there is a lot of metal in the filter" time to be worried.

I've got a similar problem with the Yanmar clone, but instead of pulling the filter completely out, I popped it approx 2/3 the way out so I could at least clean the screen and the interior space where the filter sits.

I was really happy to see very little metal, so at least I know everything seems to be Ok, so I guess the couple of hours spent running the engine on the bench at 20 min intervals may have helped, as the engine has really worked hard ever since it was placed in the bike.

If you have done 10000 Ks, its getting to a vital point of getting the filter out for a service. I'm going to do my filter checks every 5000 k's, that is a little too regular, but one thing I don't want is a engine failure in the middle of nowhere.

I'm also changing my oil every 2500 K's

Have a look for your engine maintenance specs, I guess you will find it should be checked every 10000 K's

When I've reconditioned and rebuilt petrol and diesel engines I've always taken them out myself for the first run, then getting the owners to bring it back in the first 1000 K's to dump the oil and change the filter.

Some would look in dismay as I have opened the filter carefully with a modified can opener = always getting questioned why I've always explained the above regarding metal in the filter etc.

To this day I never had an engine fail - only seen them come back for servicing, so I guess its a case of stick to what you know.

My Uncle taught me well




Cheers


Andrew

[balboa_71]

Andrew,
Why not get us a more detail report on your luck with the clone engine you have? You're one of the few that has been running one of these, and I'd like to know what you think about the power, vibration, fuel mileage, and other things about it. I'm also running a clone, but haven't gotten much time to get it out on the road due to winter weather and a broken shoulder back in the late fall.

thanks,
Cris

[andrewaust]

Hi Cris


I'm actually working on a whole A - Z on the Enfield I have built to go on Stuarts website.

Like every other poor bugger these days, time has been scarce, getting little time to myself, especially now a family member is gravely ill.

To quickly answer your questions:

I think the Yanmar L100 clone diesels are one of the best value for money engines around. I've had a good look at the machining of the engines etc, and cannot fault them at all.

Vibration: The only time you feel any vibration is at idle, normal for any Diesel running such high compression. At speed the engine is brilliant, actually smoother than the Bullet 500 engine I replaced it with.

Fuel economy: Who can complain with a fuel consumption between 1.8 to 2.2 litres to the 100 kilometres = just brilliant again. All the riding I do is top end speed = 70 to 95 K's mostly, as all roads nearby are arterial roads.

Power: Now this is where I would like an extra 5hp, but the cc to power ratio is good, I think it does well, and all that I feel is needed = provide some positive pressure to the air inlet and you'll probably gain 1 or 2 extra horses, don't sound like much, but the total output of the engine is just under 10, so 12 is better than a kick in the pants.

Charles from the riding on salad oil website (Featured on Stuarts site) has built a similar bike = actually you would call it a twin to my bike , he has also used the same engine.

He replaced the main bearing in his after it failed at 5000 K's, but I feel he may have damaged the bearing when he pulled the governor apart and ran the engine ungoverned and with the balancer shaft removed = definite no no on a new engine. Other than that he's also had no problems.

As posted elsewhere = I'm only fairly light, weighing in at 70kg's, the Enfield approx 165 with fuel, so on a good day I can govern the bike out at 95 K's with the engine sitting just over 3800 rpm. I feel the engine is somewhat safe to 4000 rpm, but probably wouldn't push it further.

The manual which came with the engine stated 3800 rpm as max, power drops off at 3700 rpm, so there's not to much of a chance to run it much over that - even down hill the engine governs out and will not gain speed.

My bike has done 3000 K's so far without any drama's using no oil between changes.

All in all I’m really please so far.





Cheers


Andrew

[balboa_71]

Andrew,
Thanks for the update/report. Sounds like you are doing well for yourself, and after reading what you have experienced, I can say I'm in the same league, but running a Comet and lower gearing due to weight issues. My top speed is 50mph, flat out.

"He replaced the main bearing in his after it failed at 5000 K's, but I feel he may have damaged the bearing when he pulled the governor apart and ran the engine ungoverned and with the balancer shaft removed = definite no no on a new engine. Other than that he's also had no problems. "

No balancer shaft? that must have been a sight to see.....free'd up some HP, probibly.

Please post the URL to your "A to Z" report when you get it done, thanks!!

Cris

[addicted]

Hello,

Just wanted to say thanks for that write up on the positives and negatives. Not only is it helpful but it gives me a fuzzy feeling that the 10HP yanmar clone is the way to go.

If and when hopefully soon I get the engine I would be interested in a write up or questioning one of you on the RPM limits. Those I have seen state 3600 but if you could turn up the governor a bit and a 3800 safely it may be a good thing as you have done or as it came stock. Also wondering about turning up fuel or full load screws. Again never seen one of these engines but I'm sure there is a way to get all of that power out of there.

I'll save questions and thoughts about turbo's for that post I just saw.

Thank you,
Jason

[nicknick109]

Andrew,
thanks for the info but the main problem with my bike along with all Charnwood 1B30 engine builds is that the engine HAS to come out of the frame to get to the filter. Now I am not sure if I can drop the engine down or do as Charnwood said and remove it to the right (when sitting on it ) I am just posting in the hope that somebody somewhere has done it so fingers crossed.
Nick

[Darren]

I've got a Charnwood Enfield with a Hatz 1B30

The bike came without the fan or fan shroud. Soon after geting the bike I won a couple of 1B30 engines on ebay. Only trouble is the seller has totally f^(&£) me over. He finally refunded my money a week ago (£30) still owes the £90 I sent him for postage... He claims that first his label fell off the pallet and then that the courrier tried to delivier. Acording to the seller took them a month and a half to get the pallet back to him. He generally ignores my request for the couriers details, a couple of times he has said he will send them but has not. Think I'm going to have to report him to the police (which I would rather avoid)

Anyway anyone got any engine spares???

[Darren]

Managed to get a flywheel cowl from ebay

Good service and the item is an unused 'take off'

The seller has another set
http://tinyurl.com/25vq9b (look at sellers other items for the front half

Advertised as for a 1B20 but the parts pdf (available from the Hatz website) losts the same part numbers for both 1B20 and 1B30

Unfortunately the back plate is for a non electric start and also the three mounting holes did not line up with the bolt holes on my engine....

I've cut a hole for the starter and am going to drill some new holes for the mounting studs.

[sbrumby]

Can anybody tell me if there is a filter to be changed or cleaned in the Yanmar diesel? There seems to be two filler plugs which have dipsticks & one black coloured one that I have never opened. Also is it just regular oil to be used? Mine is a L6 275cc 6HP.

[andrewaust]

Hi Strumby


The Yanmar/ Yanmar clones have a screen filter that can be hard to get completely out if you have got it in an Enfield, others may be easier. The location could be different to my 406 - there are two types. Just look for the black plug with the 10mm bolt holding it in.

I can get my filter out enough to clean it with mineral spirit (Kero or Diesel), just keep check of a lot of hard facing flakes - could mean a bearing going.

Use good quality diesel engine oil - I won't say what viscosity, as this solely depends on the climate where you live.





Cheers



Andrew

[Darren]

I took the opportunity to change my oil while the flywheel was off.
Was not going to bother but am glad I did. This was not easy and would have been much more difficult without the access granted by the removed flywheel.

The magnet on the drain plug had a bit of metal/oil sludge stuck to it which danced to the movement of my screwdriver .....

If I'm reading things right the flywheel needs 350NM +20 to torque correctly.

I made a hardwood wedge to go between the bottom of the flywheel and the frame and torqued up to the max of 200NM using my biggest torque wrench and then a bit more with my breaker bar before the wedge disintegrated. I'm guessing I didn't get to the specified torque. Going to ring Hatz to find out how they lock the engine when torquing these bolts and then borrow my mates inch drive torque wrench.

Also spent some time hunting down a nice stainless soup bowl to cover the hole where the pull start should be on my flywwheel cowling - no more scary rotating things on view.

Also cleaned out the fuel tank. All a bit scary.... I'd been getting a bit of water in the filter for a while which I drained as I saw it gathering but having to run on reserve gave a lot more. I drained the tank then pulled it from the bike and took out the return pipe and fuel tap. The last cup of sludge I got out looked like coffee.

I swilled through with clean fuel and the filled with fresh fuel. I'll be fitting my little indian glass sediment bowl before I ride again.

Best

Darren

[reg hardlyrideables]

going back to the filter question could you fit a remote oil filter then you can fit the filter anywhere you please
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/s ... howValue=1

[Darren]

I have thought about remote mounting the filter - trouble is that it screws inside the engine block in the sump and then a plug seals the hole - although I guess an adaptor could be machined to screw up where the filter goes - on the oil pump feed. This would also somehow have to seal where the new adaptor exits the crankcase. For simplicity I would drill another hole in the crankcase to get the dirty oil into the new filter

I was talking to the engineer at Charnwood (they who were contracted by Hatz to put the new IB30 into a bike) who said that oil filter cleaning was a pain and the engine had to come out. He said that you could remove the filter altogether and half the oil change as their is no pressure bypass and a blocked filter would stop all lubricating oil flow and cause major damage.

Best

Darren

[Sphere]

Hi Andrew,

You mention Charles' bike as a sister bike. Is this still true? He claims his bike runs 110kph now. Did you replace the tranny sprocket as well? Or does he just have a very positive speedo?

Also, read on dieselkrad about engines failing due to overrev'ing, are you still convinced your engine runs OK at above rated rpm?

Is your engine 10HP continuous, or peak?
edit: never mind you actually have a real Yanmar.

Charles from the riding on salad oil website (Featured on Stuarts site) has built a similar bike = actually you would call it a twin to my bike , he has also used the same engine.

He replaced the main bearing in his after it failed at 5000 K's, but I feel he may have damaged the bearing when he pulled the governor apart and ran the engine ungoverned and with the balancer shaft removed = definite no no on a new engine. Other than that he's also had no problems.

As posted elsewhere = I'm only fairly light, weighing in at 70kg's, the Enfield approx 165 with fuel, so on a good day I can govern the bike out at 95 K's with the engine sitting just over 3800 rpm. I feel the engine is somewhat safe to 4000 rpm, but probably wouldn't push it further.

The manual which came with the engine stated 3800 rpm as max, power drops off at 3700 rpm, so there's not to much of a chance to run it much over that - even down hill the engine governs out and will not gain speed.

[Ih8Suvs]

Andrew,
Why not get us a more detail report on your luck with the clone engine you have? You're one of the few that has been running one of these, and I'd like to know what you think about the power, vibration, fuel mileage, and other things about it. I'm also running a clone, but haven't gotten much time to get it out on the road due to winter weather and a broken shoulder back in the late fall.

thanks,
Cris

I also built a Yanclone powered Enfield. Andrew and Charles Altmann were both very helpful to me during my build as was Jochen Sommer who supplied the longer input shaft and primary inner. My bike is also pictured on Charles Altmanns site with the others. My engine is a Launtop branded 10hp. Same experience as Andrew, zero issues with the engine, starts easily, very low vibration, great economy and adequate power but could use another 5 or so to be happy at higher speeds. Comfortable at 50mph the way it is. Ditch the electric start if you have kick available, save the weight. I installed a Yanmar 15 amp dynamo and have no problems powering all the electrics even at idle. I change oil every 1000 miles or so, never uses any and never have found metal in the screen. I use Cheng Shin tires, the current set has 3000 miles on them and show no real wear yet, mold nubs still visible. Cheap, 21 USD a tire and stick well enough to scrape the pegs. Perfect bike for around the local area, I use mine daily. I even strap a milk crate on it to go get my groceries. Despite having 7 other very fun motorcycles (3 Ducatis, 2 BMW's a Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans and a KLR) it is the Enfield diesel that gets chosen unless I am going on a trip or want to go carve the twisties in the Black Hills.

[andrewaust]

Hi Sphere & Ih8Suvs



My bike will site on 90 - 100 K's with the 17 tooth sprocket. It's rather hilly here so I never put the 19 on the bike as it does drop down to 80 K's on larger hills, so the 19 would be an overkill here.

I wouldn't go anything over 4000 rpm, my engine sits on 3900 approx at 100 K's. It's done over 7000 K's now, I change the oil every 2500 K's. My engines like Ih8Suvs, chews no oil etc. I agree with Ih8Suvs, it would be great to have that extra gear for an overdrive !

Ih8Suvs - great to see your having heaps of fun with your bike mate.

I've got 2 other bikes "Sold the Yamaharley that would have been 3 bikes", just like yourself, use the bike for just about everything . Never had a problem with the engine, I've backed the fuel off so it's not over-fueling making a heap of soot that would eventually kill the engine.

From all the bikes I've owned, and that's an absolute heap! This one has got to be the biggest attention getter ever , didn't build it for that kind of status, but it has to make you smile at times.

That's the go with the stator, been thinking of purchasing a Yanmar one for my bike too, although the electrics are just holding up - as long as you don't idle for to long with the headlight on .

It was a pleasure to help out with your build, great to hear its going well.



Cheers


Andrew

[Sphere]

Well hrm.

So if my bike would do 95-100km/h on the flat (and I live in Holland ) with a 9-10HP motor of 300EUR, I don't particularly feel like spending another 1400 for a 20/22/25 HP V2 that may or may not fit the Enfield frame without applying the grinder, since your bike will only end up doing 120-130 km/h.

Unfortunately the engine I'm looking at has a tapered shaft, which complicates things and I'm not sure if that is a shaft you have to replace anyway.

Choices, choices.

http://www.yang-ke.com/download/YK186F% ... atalog.pdf

[andrewaust]

Yes - It can make deciding hard I guess, just depends on your needs! The single diesel is easy to kick start etc, I cannot give you an opinion on which way you should go. You've got a lot more torque with the twin, plus it would probably sound really cool.

The only thing that can be annoying = Combustion/Diesel Knock. That's the only pain. I don't know if the v twin knocks the same, it's made on the same design, but may be quieter.

I don't think I could run the twin here in OZ, as it's a major problem if you chop the frame, the reason for doing away with the electric starter idea, finding it kick starts easy anyway.

Something else to think about.

[Sphere]

So which bits require elongation? If I buy an engine with a tapered shaft, will I just swap that out anyway of is it a shaft or the gearbox?

[andrewaust]

You'll need the Taurus extended input transmission shaft and a Taurus inner chaincase. Tapered shaft? Now that's going to be interesting as my shaft is the standard 25mm straight shaft!

If you're going with the single 10hp engine you'll also need to machine/fabricate an adapter plate from the engine to inner case. Have a look at my build on Stuarts site to give you an idea http://www.dieselbike.net/AndrewsRoyalE ... nfield.htm

The tapered shaft is going to be tricky! Why? You won't be able to line up the clutch to engine sprocket as well, me being a fussy bugger, like to line the sprockets up spot on. If you have an unaligned primary chain, you'll have problems from the start.

Do you have any engineering or fabrication experience?



Cheers


Andrew

[Sphere]

Ok, that's clear then, because I didn't find which parts were ordered from Sommer. Then the tapered shaft is a no-go, and I will enquire for a straight one.

If I recall correctly, Heiko Fleck managed to do a conversion without a spacer/adapter, but maybe I'm stretching my luck trying to accomplish the same.

I don't have any engineering experience, so I'll be a bit slower than some here.