Hi all,
I finally got permission to put my Daihatsu turbo diesel Dnepr on the road and so have set about the testing. Took a bit to get the rig set up so I felt it drivable. I am incredibly impressed with the power of the motor. It has taken me a while to get used to the sidecar (carrying 25kg ballast in car) but am improving with every kilometer. Got her on a straight today and opened her up, I could hear that turbo spool up and the power kicked in. Damn the bike wanted to wheelie and in top gear,so with the front wheel skittering about I shut it down a bit and returned to more sensible progress. I feel the bike is very much under geared for the engines power and really needs a 5th gear for relaxed cruising otherwise the engine will rev needlessly and consume excess fuel. I dont think theres a gearbox conversion available unless anyone knows different,so will probably change the rear drive for the higher gear version and get it as best as I can.Anyway arrived home to discover a pool of oil developing under the bike all over my dads driveway(wont be popular). Turns out its the sump gasket leaking, Its a rubber thingie that squirms about when the bolts are tightened and I fear I may have split it between the bolt holes and the inner sump as the leak is through the bolts. I will try and fix it in situ (superglue and sealant) as replacing the gasket is an engine out job.Anyway having great Craic.
John
Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
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johnfireball
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andrewaust
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Great to see your bike is a runner John, sounds like that rubber gasket has perished and gone soft? Diesel engine oil on peoples driveways always gets a frown ......... 
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A
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thundercougarfalconbird
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
good job john, dont feel bad about the oil leak, i had my oil cooler hemorrhaging oil in traffic, it seem there are a few troubles to iron out,that and the injection system, it all takes time
I'll do what i feel.
Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi, for dnepr there are 3 final drive ratios
for sidecar, solo( ads 16 percent) and one in between.
Also, there's a longer 4th gear, which adds about 6%
But.. make sure they are good (MB series) parts.
Aslo i wonder if the final drive and gearbox are strong enough for the massive surplus of power..
Dirve.. and let us know
Hope to see you at Hamm!
for sidecar, solo( ads 16 percent) and one in between.
Also, there's a longer 4th gear, which adds about 6%
But.. make sure they are good (MB series) parts.
Aslo i wonder if the final drive and gearbox are strong enough for the massive surplus of power..
Dirve.. and let us know
Hope to see you at Hamm!
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johnfireball
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi Arnaud,
I replaced the sump gasket (had to remove engine).I had overtightened the sump bolts and caused it to split I also used the incorrect jointing compound first time.Anyway its perfect now. Today I fitted new ratios to the rear drive,the original was 4.62:1 and the new is 3.5:1 what percentage difference is this? my brain cant get around it. It was quite a job fitting it and I hope I have it right.The backlash appears correct and the gears rotate freely except for one spot on the crown wheel where it tightens slightly.The quality of machine finish on the parts is gruesome and I hope they will run in ok.Will test tomorrow.I finally got my registration sorted out and am now fully road legal.Looking foreward to doing some touring on it.
John.
I replaced the sump gasket (had to remove engine).I had overtightened the sump bolts and caused it to split I also used the incorrect jointing compound first time.Anyway its perfect now. Today I fitted new ratios to the rear drive,the original was 4.62:1 and the new is 3.5:1 what percentage difference is this? my brain cant get around it. It was quite a job fitting it and I hope I have it right.The backlash appears correct and the gears rotate freely except for one spot on the crown wheel where it tightens slightly.The quality of machine finish on the parts is gruesome and I hope they will run in ok.Will test tomorrow.I finally got my registration sorted out and am now fully road legal.Looking foreward to doing some touring on it.
John.
Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
De-grating/smoothening of the parts happens normally BEFORE hardening.. some inferior dnepr parts don't seem to got both stages.. That's why i reffered to the army-parts. These were made on a separate line..
The crown wheel needs its specified play. you can add shims between the big bearing and final drive cover. collapsing of the 4 threads and de-winding of the 4 connecting bolts is a common problem. Solve it before the alu threads are ruined!
But okay, where can we find some pic's of your creation?
The crown wheel needs its specified play. you can add shims between the big bearing and final drive cover. collapsing of the 4 threads and de-winding of the 4 connecting bolts is a common problem. Solve it before the alu threads are ruined!
But okay, where can we find some pic's of your creation?
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johnfireball
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi Arnaud,
I tested the new gearing today about 20k and it ran in fine, its now running smoothly with no noise. I assume it was the poor finish causing the problem. The new gearing has transformed the bike and it feels correct for motorway speeds. I will now remove the pinion from the drive and check the contact patch on the teeth. When I disassembled the drive there were no shims fitted between bearing and outer cover and when assembling I tried a thin shim but the new gears were too tight when assembled so I assembled the drive again as was without the shim but with no cover gasket, it was still too tight.I then assembled it with the cover gasket but without the shim and it seems correct as there is a small amount of backlash. I replaced the pinion bearing with one supplied with two rubber seals, should I remove the inner seal to allow the gear oil into it or is it ok to run in its own grease? I will post some fresh pictures tomorrow.
John.
I tested the new gearing today about 20k and it ran in fine, its now running smoothly with no noise. I assume it was the poor finish causing the problem. The new gearing has transformed the bike and it feels correct for motorway speeds. I will now remove the pinion from the drive and check the contact patch on the teeth. When I disassembled the drive there were no shims fitted between bearing and outer cover and when assembling I tried a thin shim but the new gears were too tight when assembled so I assembled the drive again as was without the shim but with no cover gasket, it was still too tight.I then assembled it with the cover gasket but without the shim and it seems correct as there is a small amount of backlash. I replaced the pinion bearing with one supplied with two rubber seals, should I remove the inner seal to allow the gear oil into it or is it ok to run in its own grease? I will post some fresh pictures tomorrow.
John.
Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
I cannot remember 2 seals on the pinion bearing, you mean the double one or the small needle bearing? as long as the outer one does its job, go by what you think is best..
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johnfireball
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi,
Pictures of finished bike. I took her for a 50 mile test run tonight,all went well cruising at 55-60mph with loads in reserve.I need to balance the front wheel as a judder develops at higher speeds also I think the rear wheel bearing is whining at any speed above 50mph,it could be the rear drive backlash is incorrect,I'll have to check it out.The engine is very relaxed with the higher gearing and pulls like a train,I think I got it just right.This machine would easily do 80mph if it were more managable. The rear hub got quite hot and there are signs of melted grease on the hub. The final drive side stayed nice and cool. I think the rear drive has bedded in as now there appears to be more backlash than before, I am judging this by rocking the bike back and forth and looking at the delay in the driveshaft turning. I think I'll have another look. I'm planning a 200mile trip on Saturday and I need it right.
John
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johnfireball
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Disaster,
checked out the noise today and it turns out the bevel gear has chipped its teeth. I since found out that when fitting this ratio gearset that some of the ally housing must be ground down to clear the gearwheel teeth,so I must try again. More money to be spent.I will look for a better quality gearset and full shimset this time. Second time lucky!
John.
checked out the noise today and it turns out the bevel gear has chipped its teeth. I since found out that when fitting this ratio gearset that some of the ally housing must be ground down to clear the gearwheel teeth,so I must try again. More money to be spent.I will look for a better quality gearset and full shimset this time. Second time lucky!
John.
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Stuart
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Keep plugging away there John it will come together soon I'm sure 
I know all about gear problems 
Stuart
I know all about gear problems Stuart
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mark_in_manchester
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi -
I'm new to this forum, but I'm 4 years into a Charade Turbo Diesel / Ural project. Small kids = long project. Johnny Flatau has helped me with suggestions - I found him on this site. I note your points about gear ratios - I have a high-ratio 4th gear from Poland (1.13:1 I think) and a 3.2:1 final drive set which required a lot of fettling to fit into the case - even now I'm not sure it's right. Bike now pulls from about 25mph to maybe 90 in top (speedo calibration is complicated by change of FD ratio), and still seems to be rev-limited at the top end - it feels like it would pull even more.
Not road legal yet - has anyone got experience of dealing with DVLA and insurers in the UK?
I have ongoing problems with water leaks (I'm using an Austin mini radiator, and a plastic header tank strapped to handlebars, provisionally), and possibly (though I hope not!) water consumption - heads crack between the valves (my 'spare' head is thus cracked). I'm hoping I don't have to pull current engine apart and get the head welded...sounds expensive. Bike runs at about 80C but gets hotter when idling at standstill - I have some Jap-bike fan to add, though Jonny F. thinks this is not needed.
Well, perhaps I'll hear from anymore Daihatsu-Ural-Dnepr people out there. It would be nice to know who and where you are.
cheers
Mark, Manchester, UK
I'm new to this forum, but I'm 4 years into a Charade Turbo Diesel / Ural project. Small kids = long project. Johnny Flatau has helped me with suggestions - I found him on this site. I note your points about gear ratios - I have a high-ratio 4th gear from Poland (1.13:1 I think) and a 3.2:1 final drive set which required a lot of fettling to fit into the case - even now I'm not sure it's right. Bike now pulls from about 25mph to maybe 90 in top (speedo calibration is complicated by change of FD ratio), and still seems to be rev-limited at the top end - it feels like it would pull even more.
Not road legal yet - has anyone got experience of dealing with DVLA and insurers in the UK?
I have ongoing problems with water leaks (I'm using an Austin mini radiator, and a plastic header tank strapped to handlebars, provisionally), and possibly (though I hope not!) water consumption - heads crack between the valves (my 'spare' head is thus cracked). I'm hoping I don't have to pull current engine apart and get the head welded...sounds expensive. Bike runs at about 80C but gets hotter when idling at standstill - I have some Jap-bike fan to add, though Jonny F. thinks this is not needed.
Well, perhaps I'll hear from anymore Daihatsu-Ural-Dnepr people out there. It would be nice to know who and where you are.
cheers
Mark, Manchester, UK
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johnfireball
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi Mark,
Nice to hear from someone using the same motor as myself. I have ordered a new 3.2 : 1 rear drive set from oldtimer garage and they appear to be much better quality than the last 3.5 : 1 set although twice the price. I'll know for sure when I get delivery.
As for your water loss: The mini radiator did not have a seperate header tank and so has a water loss type radiator cap ie, it does not return the expanded water when cooling down.This was ok in the mini as the radiator was mounted higher than the engine so a little air pocket in the top was acceptable. Now in your bike the radiator is lower than the engine and so must be kept completly full. You need a radiator cap with a return valve and a top rubber seal and also a catch tank. On my setup I have a water resevoir above the engine to ensure the coolant level cannot drop too low,it holds about 1/2 liter, its a 2" copper pipe with a radiator cap at one end and a pipe into the thermostat housing at the other. I had to change the cap as it was the wrong type as described earlier and was not returning the expanded water. The cooling fan switch kicks in at 110 degrees on my temp gauge and it takes quite a while for it to get that hot when stationary. I was caught in stopped traffic for about 20 mins and it reached 100 degrees, so it is not too bad. I replaced the standard 89 degree thermostat with a lower value one (I think 78 degrees) to give cooler running and longer stop time without the fan. My running temp shows at 82 degrees. I wouldnt fancy doing 90 on a ural or dnepr,how would you stop it?
John.
John.
Nice to hear from someone using the same motor as myself. I have ordered a new 3.2 : 1 rear drive set from oldtimer garage and they appear to be much better quality than the last 3.5 : 1 set although twice the price. I'll know for sure when I get delivery.
As for your water loss: The mini radiator did not have a seperate header tank and so has a water loss type radiator cap ie, it does not return the expanded water when cooling down.This was ok in the mini as the radiator was mounted higher than the engine so a little air pocket in the top was acceptable. Now in your bike the radiator is lower than the engine and so must be kept completly full. You need a radiator cap with a return valve and a top rubber seal and also a catch tank. On my setup I have a water resevoir above the engine to ensure the coolant level cannot drop too low,it holds about 1/2 liter, its a 2" copper pipe with a radiator cap at one end and a pipe into the thermostat housing at the other. I had to change the cap as it was the wrong type as described earlier and was not returning the expanded water. The cooling fan switch kicks in at 110 degrees on my temp gauge and it takes quite a while for it to get that hot when stationary. I was caught in stopped traffic for about 20 mins and it reached 100 degrees, so it is not too bad. I replaced the standard 89 degree thermostat with a lower value one (I think 78 degrees) to give cooler running and longer stop time without the fan. My running temp shows at 82 degrees. I wouldnt fancy doing 90 on a ural or dnepr,how would you stop it?
John.
John.
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mark_in_manchester
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
John -
Thanks for your reply. Ideas for header tank are good - I'd been thinking on similar lines. I have the cap and overflow tank (plastic pop bottle) you describe - it's hard to prime the overflow tube full of coolant, and if it contains air then this is drawn back into system as it cools. Meanwhile clear plastic header on handlebars is good for building confidence that coolant is still present! Your info on running temp is really useful. My figures are accurate as I have a laboratory mercury thermometer inserted through a cork into the top hose...but your numbers suggest I'm not getting anywhere near dangerously hot. I've no thermostat at all at the moment, and I've never seen more than 90C even with prolonged tickover.
I lost top gear the other day - dogs are rounded. It was iffy when I assembled gearbox, so no surprise. I've ordered a 1:1 4th set from Oldtimer - this is getting expensive, I should have bought a Guzzi. I think I may be able to improve location of sliding sleeve on engaging 4th gear, for more 'solid' engagement - on early Ural boxes you can take a cover off and see where the selector forks end up as the cam plate revolves. You can also see how well you've done shimming the output shaft and reducing tendency for gears to move along shaft relative to selector forks. My frame comes in two at rear of engine, to allow easy gearbox access - I've had loads of hassle over the years with Ural boxes in standard bikes.
Let me know if you need to talk about getting the 3.2:1 set into the final drive housing (m.r.avis at salford.ac.uk). You have to file or machine the shoulder against which the big double-row bearing sits to get the pinion in, and there's not much space left over. I had tight spots, and took a shade off the pinion here and there with fine abrasive belt. It still whines very slightly, but it's not too bad.
Stopping - I have to look a long way up the motorway! I've made a hydraulic front brake using morris minor backplate, slave cylinders and shoes (8" shoe is near enough to 200mm drum) but MZ master cyl leaks all over the place at present.
Did I see a Dublin plate on your bike? The wife is from Stillorgan. Not been over for a while - though I was hoping to tour Wicklow again one day, on the contents of the now-redundant heating oil tank in her sister's back garden...
cheers
Mark
Thanks for your reply. Ideas for header tank are good - I'd been thinking on similar lines. I have the cap and overflow tank (plastic pop bottle) you describe - it's hard to prime the overflow tube full of coolant, and if it contains air then this is drawn back into system as it cools. Meanwhile clear plastic header on handlebars is good for building confidence that coolant is still present! Your info on running temp is really useful. My figures are accurate as I have a laboratory mercury thermometer inserted through a cork into the top hose...but your numbers suggest I'm not getting anywhere near dangerously hot. I've no thermostat at all at the moment, and I've never seen more than 90C even with prolonged tickover.
I lost top gear the other day - dogs are rounded. It was iffy when I assembled gearbox, so no surprise. I've ordered a 1:1 4th set from Oldtimer - this is getting expensive, I should have bought a Guzzi. I think I may be able to improve location of sliding sleeve on engaging 4th gear, for more 'solid' engagement - on early Ural boxes you can take a cover off and see where the selector forks end up as the cam plate revolves. You can also see how well you've done shimming the output shaft and reducing tendency for gears to move along shaft relative to selector forks. My frame comes in two at rear of engine, to allow easy gearbox access - I've had loads of hassle over the years with Ural boxes in standard bikes.
Let me know if you need to talk about getting the 3.2:1 set into the final drive housing (m.r.avis at salford.ac.uk). You have to file or machine the shoulder against which the big double-row bearing sits to get the pinion in, and there's not much space left over. I had tight spots, and took a shade off the pinion here and there with fine abrasive belt. It still whines very slightly, but it's not too bad.
Stopping - I have to look a long way up the motorway! I've made a hydraulic front brake using morris minor backplate, slave cylinders and shoes (8" shoe is near enough to 200mm drum) but MZ master cyl leaks all over the place at present.
Did I see a Dublin plate on your bike? The wife is from Stillorgan. Not been over for a while - though I was hoping to tour Wicklow again one day, on the contents of the now-redundant heating oil tank in her sister's back garden...
cheers
Mark
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johnfireball
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
Hi Mark,
I got the new 3.2 : 1 gears fitted after a lot of metal removal and as you say not a lot of bearing location metal was left. I noticed that on the russian made double race ball bearing that the curve on the edge of the bearing was much greater than the curve on a european version so causing the russian bearing to fit further into the housing preventing it from locking in correctly with the screw collar and upsetting the pinion position. Anyway I spent days shimming and blueing to check the teeth contact pattern and now reckon its as good as can be got.
I took her for a 70 mile test run today over the wicklow mountains and she performed faultlessy except for the rear wheel bearing which whines at over 55 mph. I checked my speedo calibration with another rider and it would appear that my kph speedo now reads quite accurately in mph. On another point I was reliably informed that these engines tended to overheat with the stat removed as the coolant circulates through the radiator too quickly allowing insufficient time for heat transfer, see how you get on without. If you'r coming over give me a shout.
John.
I got the new 3.2 : 1 gears fitted after a lot of metal removal and as you say not a lot of bearing location metal was left. I noticed that on the russian made double race ball bearing that the curve on the edge of the bearing was much greater than the curve on a european version so causing the russian bearing to fit further into the housing preventing it from locking in correctly with the screw collar and upsetting the pinion position. Anyway I spent days shimming and blueing to check the teeth contact pattern and now reckon its as good as can be got.
I took her for a 70 mile test run today over the wicklow mountains and she performed faultlessy except for the rear wheel bearing which whines at over 55 mph. I checked my speedo calibration with another rider and it would appear that my kph speedo now reads quite accurately in mph. On another point I was reliably informed that these engines tended to overheat with the stat removed as the coolant circulates through the radiator too quickly allowing insufficient time for heat transfer, see how you get on without. If you'r coming over give me a shout.
John.
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mark_in_manchester
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
I know what you mean about the curve on that bearing outer, and location on what is left of the shoulder in the housing, once it has been taken out to get pinion through. I turned up a thick shim to sit between bearing outer and shoulder, which helps that problem to some extent. I guess I should do some shimming and bluing myself...I have a pot of blue goo. Thanks for that note on the thermostat. On the move, temp is currently really low - maybe 70.
How did you go on with insurance? I thought cover on a standard bike was bad enough in the republic...
I'll try to post a photo of my bike.
cheers, Mark
How did you go on with insurance? I thought cover on a standard bike was bad enough in the republic...
I'll try to post a photo of my bike.
cheers, Mark
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mark_in_manchester
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Re: Testing Daihatsu turbo Dnepr
John -
You said your kph speedo was now more-or-less reading in mph (not so useful these days in Irish Republic?!). I guess that's using a speedo drive intended for 4.8:1 sidecar bevel set, with 3.2:1 gears? My 1:1 4th is now in - need to reassemble for road test. Only one cracked frame weld found so far...
cheers
Mark
You said your kph speedo was now more-or-less reading in mph (not so useful these days in Irish Republic?!). I guess that's using a speedo drive intended for 4.8:1 sidecar bevel set, with 3.2:1 gears? My 1:1 4th is now in - need to reassemble for road test. Only one cracked frame weld found so far...
cheers
Mark