Kick starting

[nicknick109]

RE/Hatz IB30
Always had a problem with this engine in being unable to kickstart it. Stuart showed me several times and it always started for him but not for me.I fitted a recoil starter still no luck. Then met Trevor at the 2008 Big Knock and he explained where I was going wrong. His instructions were find compression take the kickstart over and about 4-6 inch's past then big kick and surprise it started .All last year I kicked away and it started every time. The bike was not used Jan-Feb when I went to go for a ride early March tried kick starting and the recoil nothing just could not start it but on the key no problem.Tried without the aircleaner and sprayed some WD 40 in still no good. Can any one offer any help only thing I can think is that the diesel in the tank is from last summer but not sure if it is as bad as petrol in going off.
Thanks any ideas much appreciated.
Nick

[Diesel Dave]

Some of the lighter fractions have prob. vaporised off the fuel making it a little more difficult to start.

Tray draining off half the fuel and replacing it with fresh and going for a good long run to get the injector and pump cleared through.

Might be worthwhile adding some injector cleaner too.

Dave

[sbrumby]

I would think the fuel is a bit of a red herring, diesel does not loose anything from standing. Tractors that have been parked in the nettles for 20 years will still start on the original fuel, after all oil has been in the ground for 2 or 3 million years. A diesel only fires because high compression causes red hot air. The problem starting a cold engine is the cylinder piston and head rob all the heat. The starter motor can start it because it turns over many times and it produces more heat than turning it over once. If you look at the Petter engine and on the Yanmar, on the top by the decompressor is a plug that says prime.
I had to take one to bits to find what this does, its just to add oil via the inlet valve to increase compression. But if you realy want to kick it up buy a can of easy start £2.50 that will definately work.

[oldbmw]

Alternatively, if it has a decompression lever, turn it over through a couple of ignition sequences ( with the trottle open and fuel cut off valve (if it has one) open). that will put a couple of squirts of diesel in the bores, helps compression.

I used to have one of those little aluminium petter engines from a water pump, I used it in a home made saw table and it needed a little squirt of light oil down there to start when cold.

[nicknick109]

Thanks all for the suggestions and help.Thought summer diesel might have been a bit thicker than winter.On the Hatz it is an auto de-compressor.

[Sphere]

Does this mean you got it running again?

[nicknick109]

Sphere,
running not a problem it would always start on the key but just could not kickstart it. Will do as Diesel Dave suggested and put so fresh diesel in to the tank and try again.I know summer diesel is different from winter and at the moment I have last years summer stuff in the tank so it may just be a bit to cold (weather) to allow me to kickstart it.
Nick

[andrewaust]

The other thing is compression guy's, the Yanclones have around 21:1 compression, I think the Hatz is less (19:1?) which will mean a lower compression volume and lowered heated air. I remember working on the really old diesels with only 16:1 compression, they would fire up "some with starting aid" but were really smoky. Pollution laws etc see most diesels from 19:1 up to 23:1 , of course running a blower or turbo raises compression even higher, that's why diesels do not run (*shouldn't run*) high boost pressures.

If you need to start the bike with the kick starter Nick, do as oldbmw suggests. Wind the engine over with the decompression lever down and throttle wide open to prime the cylinder. Only 3 compression cycles should be needed. Then get the piston just over tdc, just past the compression stroke "usually where the decomp lever clicks up" and give it one really good flowing kick all the way down to get the inertia going to wind the piston over the compression stroke. It should fire up without a problem.


A;)

[thundercougarfalconbird]

dont forget to check and set valve lash, as the engine runs in the valves will tighten and compression just wont happen, makes for hard starting

[Dan J]

I think there is definitely a technique that you either "get" or you don't. I have a Yanmar clone engine so not the same as yours but certainly find the same thing. I got very fed up with spending literally ages getting the bike started - it was starting the spoil my enjoyment of it having to spend so long getting it going each time. I used to end up surrounded by "helpful" passers-by, some of whom didn't and wouldn't understand that suggestions such as "checking the points" were really not helping . One cold morning at the start of winter 2008 having got out of bed the wrong side I spent 30 minutes trying to get the damn thing going - I even took all the air filter out because the bike kept not firing then blowing diesel vapour back through it . Having narrowly decided against getting an axe out and chopping the bloody thing up I made the executive decision to fit an electric starter to it. And then? Fine! I tried one morning when it was around freezing and the bike started within a couple of seconds - no WD40, no other assistance. This couples with Andrew's comments around the high compression being more than enough to heat the top of the cylinder up quickly and get the thing going. It still annoys me that I'm not good at kicking the bike over but I don't care so much now. So trust me, you're not the only one!

Bottom line, as long as you can get it going don't worry about it - there are more important things in life

[nicknick109]

Many thanks to
andrewaust
Thundercougarfalconbird
and Dan J
andrewaust on this engine it is an automatic decompressor but will try the full throttle and three turns over.
Thundercougarfalconbird must admit never thought about the valve settings.
Dan J I think your reply covered every thought I had when trying to kick start it (including the WD40 and the vapour blowing back) and you are right there are more important things to think about.
But again thanks for all taking the time to help.
Nick