Old Diesel And Learner Bike Regs

[BobMan]

Hi, I'm new to diesel bikes and thinking of returning to biking after decades since riding on a provisional license.

I've been looking at government websites and license documents, and finding that official helplines are a waste of time, so I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here.


Apparently while restrictions on larger motorcycles and motorcycle sidecar combinations are based on power and power to weight ratios, restrictions on smaller motorcycles are also limited by engine capacity to 125cc.

As it would appear that diesel engined bikes of up to 500cc seem to be under 10hp, while 125cc petrol bikes can be 14.6hp, someone please tell me that there is a seperate category for diesel bikes and where the details are hiden away.


Secondly, it would appear that, though my 30 year old car license allows me to drive 8.25 ton vehicles and trailers without taking additional tests, and even take a passenger on a dual carriageway on a moped, I now need to take a CBT and theory test to ride a bike again as a learner.

Someone tell me I'm wrong and where the evidence is.


Thanks in anticipation.

Bob

[Cockney Bob]

I have no specific evidence only that I phoned the DVLA regarding tax on Diesel bikes and Could my freind who is a learner ride mine.
I asked why it was that cars that only do 50 miles to the gallon and have alledgedly lowemmissisions can be tax free whilst my Enfield Which does at least 160MPG of Biodiesel has to qualify for £56 a year tax .They said there were no figures on Diesel Bikes and they do not Test emmissions on Bikes so I would continue having to pay.
They also told me that Learners can not ride anything over 125 cc no matter how low powered and that they can not vary that for non production untested Odd Balls they were in fact a little rude.
So I think your answer is no chance.
Bob

[BobMan]

I suspect and fear that you are right!

[Dan J]

Hi Bobman.

Cockney Bob is correct - the DVLA makes no accommodation for the fact a motorbike may run on something other than petrol. Unfortunately this is unlikely to change in the near future either - the DVLA have their hands full coping with continual changes imposed on them by ill-educated governments so diesel motorbikes will be the least of their worries!

What I would say though is the following... I first rode a 50cc bike back in 1993 and had to do a rather simplistic CBT test at the time which bordered on being a cycling proficiency test. It was designed to stop pizza delivery kids killing themselves in their droves.

Step forward to 2004 and I had the bike bug and this time was going to do my full licence. I went down the Direct Access route which means... CBT on first day, 1 day on 125, remaining days on a 500 and a licence at the end that means you can ride anything. I can make the following observations...

The theory test is easy for an experienced rider or driver. The hazard perception test (if indeed they still do it) is not and you really need to wait until you see something horrific going on before you "click". I passed first go but know many seasoned car drivers who failed several times as they clicked too many times due to recognising quite legitimate hazards but which were not what the test was looking for. I've heard talk of this being axed for that very reason.

The practical side was a whole different experience - I really expected the CBT to be somewhat patronising however it was a good refresher for me in the end and substantially more involved than the CBT I did back in 1993. The four days spent on the DAT were brilliant. It was about 75% on training you to ride safely and watch out for all the moronic users of the road and to ensure you stay alive. I then did my test and passed with flying colours. What you learn on the course really does help you ride more safely for you and I think for that alone it's worth it.

Although it's a big expense (cost me around £500 end to end) I'd say it was well worthwhile. Unfortunately it is also a necessary evil in your circumstances!

[BobMan]

Hi Dan.

I'd ridden various scooters and bikes, though only up to 250cc, off and on for several years in my youth. Unfortunately I never got around to taking my test.

But as my youth was decades ago I'd probably do a CBT/refresher even if I had my license.

However, as you say, the full direct access course is a major expense, at least for me (or, rather, her indoors - think how many shoes it could pay for!).

Worse, there isn't the option of spreading the cost with the new test coming up, which will increase the cost even more.

[BobMan]

Anyway, I've taken the bull by the horns, and put forward this petition on the "10 Downing Street" website:



We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Remove the
maximum motorbike engine size limit for learners and light
motorcycles with Diesel engines as a 500cc will produce less
than 10hp whereas a petrol engine of the allowed 125cc can
produce 14.6hp!


More details from petition creator

Currently almost all motorbikes are petrol engined and for a
learner or light motorcycle you are restricted to 125cc and
14.6hp even though higher categories only use power and power
to weight limits.

However there is growing interest in old diesel motorbikes and
diesel conversions, and even some new bikes being developed for
the military and even commercial sale.

But anyone wanting to take advantage of the massive fuel
economy of the diesel bikes, and even run them on waste
vegetable oil, has to learn on a petrol bike of up to 125cc and
14.6hp, even though the diesel bike they want to ride, though
it might be 500cc, will produce less than 10hp!

This is putting unnecessary roadblocks into the path of anyone
wanting to take up Diesel motorcycling.

"Learner" Diesel bikes should be allowed up to 15hp to level
the field and remove the need to learn on a petrol bike then
switch.



I'll post a link if and when it is approved for incusion on the site.

[Dan J]

Very true! I had fortunately got my licence before I met the now (and current) Mrs J. My permission to buy a diesel bike involved several months of careful negotiations plus the purchase of a handbag (for her, not me). I don't envy you needing to get a licence with the ever more requirements but as before, it's sadly a necessary evil. Good luck with it all!

[Cockney Bob]

Bobman you must be a soulmate indeed.
I have a number of Bikes and my wife constantly berates me saying you can only ride one at a time why do you ned to cluutter up the garage with so many bikes.To this i usually reply why do you need so many shoes /Handbags.
This then usually gets the response of either the cold shoulder or the why are you so stupid you are only reliving your youth through those bikes etc etc.
My wife believes bikes to be the work of the Devil in that they take me away from the essentials like House maintenance, Gardening or taking her out .
Is part of the hazard avoidance test establishing woman who hate bikes and should be avoided.
Bob

[Cockney Bob]

Dan j what sort of Enfield did you get from Henry. I got one of his Diesels if you contact me off forum we can compare notes.
I was at Roses cafe in Chelmsford yesterday for the Enfield southend Brekkie terrible weather good food.
I live in Rainham so maybe we can get together to compare and have a drink.
Bob

[BobMan]

To this i usually reply why do you need so many shoes /Handbags.

Surely you know by now that it's because they are all different colours.

And shades of colours!




When I met mine she was wearing a very simple and smart, unadorned, yet elegant, jump-suit.


I didn't realise it was that week's fashion.


Or that she had a wardrobe full in every shade and colour.

With matching shoes.

And handbags........................


Until the following week's fashion hit the shops!

[Cockney Bob]

When I met mine she was wearing very little I was not to realise it would get bigger and baggier as the years went by.

[BobMan]

It's a good job they're all out shopping, and not looking over our shoulders as we take a break from gardening and DIY!

[Cockney Bob]

Mine is not out shopping as it really is too atrocious weather she is just watching Tv and dreaming up work for me.
It is not biking weather either so I am just doing some spreadsheets to make it easier tomorrow.
Bob

[BobMan]

My diesel bike petition on the 10 Downing Street website isn't approved yet.


But here's a link to a petition to delay the new bike test changes until they have all the test centres up and running:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/delaytheMPTC/



Get voting and pass it on.

Check out the site (use the search function) for other diesel and bike related petitions while you're in there folks!

[BobMan]

Here it is:


****** http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FreeTheDiesel15/ ******



Please all vote and pass it round as many friends and forums as possible.



And don't forget the petition higher up the page!


Let's see if we can hit a million signatures on both!