Hello from QLD

[Cossack]

I've been thinking about a diesel bike for an awful long time, reading about the Dorsett bikes in MS&L all those years ago; Then I saws sno-bro's Punsun Dnepr and knew I had to pull my finger out (and petrol here at the moment is A$1.68/Litre while diesel is A$1.48/Litre).

Unfortunately, the only way of building a diesel bike here is as an Individually Constructed Vehicle which has to meet all current applicable Australian Design Rules (and those Rules don't envisage diesel bikes). Construction also has to be supervised by an Approved Engineer. The process starts off with submitting an application to build an ICV to TMR (our Transport Authority) and getting approval for your design.

I've had the initial conversation with an engineer at TMR and when he found out that I've already research all the applicable ADRs and found an Approved Engineer he became very helpful. Apparently some people have set out to build diesel bikes and just turn-up at the Motor Registry and get completely frustrated that they need an Approved Engineer to sign off on the complete build before anything can happen. That's a very expensive ways of doing things.

The bike is only going to be used as a solo, single seat (cheaper insurance in QLD). It needs a top speed of at least 110 km/h. Should maintain 40, 50, 80 and 100 km/h at about 3300 rpm. Frame will be Ural M-63, Dnepr or perhaps Chang Jiang based, I don't want to cut up a Ural or Dnepr frame if I can avoid it). I'd like an air=cooled V-twin engine 20-22 KW. Dnepr MT-804 gearbox converted to 5 speed and a solo 3.89 final drive. With 19" wheels that meets my speed and RPM requirements.

The big question now is which engine - Punsun, Winsun, Kubota, Kipor etc. And in my search, I've come across a QuanChang that's listed at 22KW. Decisions, Decisions! Any recent recommendations as to reliability? Are the manufacturers KW figures real world or obtained only in secret laboratories?

One big thing I have to consider is that the bike must have a handlebar operated engine kill switch. An engine mounted lever is unacceptable. Any suggestions?

I think that's enough for now. Once I've got enough sorted out to get the ICV permit, I'll start a build thread.

[the grinch]

Good luck with your build. There is loads of info on the forum just have a look around. have you had a look around at your testing station. I have got to go through the MSVA process over here the inspection manual was good to follow but i was unsure about a few things. I went to VOSA test station and it was better to see some of what they used to carry out the testing to clear up a few things in my head.
Alex

[Diesel Dave]

An industrial Diesel engine of 22kw is going to be huge - possibly too big for the frame as it will be around 1400 cc and 100kg.

The manufacturers figures are accurate and if you look at the specifications you will see charts of power output usually makes as N, NA, etc these are various iso rated output curves.

Ideally you could be looking for a small automotive diesel such as the Charade 1.0 turbo as this will be much more compact/powerful option for the weight. (I’ve seen a few Dneiper fries with such engines installed.

All the best with the build.

[Tetronator]

Welcome to the forum Cossack, best of luck with your build and permits.

Good to see another person attempting to build a bike on an Dnepr/Ural base. (I've been at it quite some time, neglecting my forum thread )

https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/viewtop ... d0ef536b93

[Cossack]

An industrial Diesel engine of 22kw is going to be huge - possibly too big for the frame as it will be around 1400 cc and 100kg.

The manufacturers figures are accurate and if you look at the specifications you will see charts of power output usually makes as N, NA, etc these are various iso rated output curves.

Ideally you could be looking for a small automotive diesel such as the Charade 1.0 turbo as this will be much more compact/powerful option for the weight. (I’ve seen a few Dneiper fries with such engines installed.

All the best with the build.

The engine I'm looking at is 1100 cc and 65 kg, which is why I asked about power outputs. 20 KW at 3000 rpm and 22 KW at 3600 rpm. Automotive engines require watercooling which stretch the wheelbase and are too high for the frame. Few Diesel engine bikes have been approved in this state, mostly low speed singles from what I can find. Going too far, too soon would only see a total ban. It's easier to ban than to think!

[mark_in_manchester]

I have a Charade engine in a (stretched) Ural frame. It's fast (for a diesel), but very very heavy and not as economical as some other approaches. If I were building another, thinking of my approaching senescence, I'd go for a smaller, lighter and much more easily located engine such as Kubota Z482. My mate has one in an un-stretched Guzzi V50 frame and uses two small radiators to left and right off a trailie bike.

If you go for a U/D/CJ approach, you might find it useful to know that 4th gear only can be swapped / raised on a Ural, but 3rd and 4th can be changed on a Dnepr. 1:1 top gear is highest ratio available. Dnepr box is about 18mm longer but engine-to-box mounts (and splines!) are in the same place on both. Highest ratio FD gears now available are 3.5:1.

[Cossack]

If you go for a U/D/CJ approach, you might find it useful to know that 4th gear only can be swapped / raised on a Ural, but 3rd and 4th can be changed on a Dnepr. 1:1 top gear is highest ratio available. Dnepr box is about 18mm longer but engine-to-box mounts (and splines!) are in the same place on both. Highest ratio FD gears now available are 3.5:1.

Contrary to what most people think there are at least three different ratio Ural gearboxes, probably not found outside of Russia, but available nevertheless. For the Dnepr MT-804 gearbox there are several 5 speed conversions made, but advice from a local Ural expert is only one manufacturer is worth dealing with and he offers six different sets of ratios, three with a 1.0 top gear and one with 0.957. I'm waiting on his contact details.

The 3.5 FD gears have a sketchy reputation as there are several manufacturers and not all are good. A 3.2 FD is sometimes available but too tall for my purposes. The standard solo 3.89 is available and I have two NOS still in their greaseproof wrapping and cosmoline. With a 1.0 top gear that gives a top speed of 119 km/h. I've been given a Ural crankcase that had a major crank failure with both rods exiting the case other than where they were meant to go, so I can cut the clutch housing off that.

I read Russian far better than I speak it and have a good grasp of automotive/motorcycle terminology so once I've got contact details I'll arrange for a five speed gearbox. It appears that the conversion necessitates the removal of the superb Dnepr auto de-clutching system, but such is life.

For the flywheel I'll get a sleeve made up to match the engine output shaft and Ural/Dnepr flywheel and weld it to the flywheel. I intend to use a single plate sprung hub automotive clutch and a diaphragm spring and an automotive pressure plate with a /5 backing plate if I can find one at an affordable price. The 1" x 10 spline clutch is used by a number of cars so it's not hard to get a suitable clutch made up.

[Cossack]

Good luck with your build. There is loads of info on the forum just have a look around. have you had a look around at your testing station. I have got to go through the MSVA process over here the inspection manual was good to follow but i was unsure about a few things. I went to VOSA test station and it was better to see some of what they used to carry out the testing to clear up a few things in my head.
Alex

Testing here is done by a private "Approved Person" (engineer) and as long as I use E marked lighting, the only real testing is braking and a stationary noise test. The noise test will be done at either 2700 or 3000 rpm (the instruction are ambiguous) and must be no more than 80 dB(A). The engineer said that he'll contact TMR and get an adjudication.

[mark_in_manchester]

[quote=Cossack post_id=26384 time=1558193591 user_id=1700]

For the Dnepr MT-804 gearbox there are several 5 speed conversions made, but advice from a local Ural expert is only one manufacturer is worth dealing with and he offers six different sets of ratios, three with a 1.0 top gear and one with 0.957. I'm waiting on his contact details.

The 3.5 FD gears have a sketchy reputation as there are several manufacturers and not all are good. A 3.2 FD is sometimes available but too tall for my purposes.

For the flywheel I'll get a sleeve made up to match the engine output shaft and Ural/Dnepr flywheel and weld it to the flywheel. I intend to use a single plate sprung hub automotive clutch and a diaphragm spring and an automotive pressure plate with a /5 backing plate if I can find one at an affordable price. The 1" x 10 spline clutch is used by a number of cars so it's not hard to get a suitable clutch made up.
[/quote]

That's an interesting thing to know about the splines. I used the bike clutch (2 friction plates, 6 coil springs), which is fine with the torque but a bit rattly when running un-enclosed. In my case I turned the boss off the back of the flywheel, shrunk a plug into the middle of it, and bored it to fit the cylindrical dowel on the end of the car crank. (It had a flange and 6 bolts, so the holes for these could be happily approximate so long as it was centred OK).

If you find a 3.2:1 FD set still available I'd be interested - I bought mine maybe 10 years ago from these people

http://www.oldtimergarage.eu/catalog/in ... Path=26_42

...and my Polish friends seem to think the factory which cut them in Poland is no longer there. (You might know it's tricky to mount them as the pinion is too big to fit an un-modified case - but sounds like you won't need to go there).

With no sidecar and 3.2:1 FD ratio, I find first gear a bit unnecessary - I think close ratios / 5 speeds won't do you a lot of good, though of course this depends on the engine you end up with. I do find the Dnepr box in mine a bit better as the big jump is between 2 and 3, not 3 and 4 as with the Ural box. This makes 3rd a lot more available for overtaking / being a hooligan. I must fix the D box and put it back in, and reverse will be handy for (senescence again) sidecar applications in future.

Oh - also you can get away with buying 1:1 top gear for D box and grinding up the flanks of the 'old' 4th to use as the new 3rd - you'll see when you get in there. It saves a bit of money (and gets you used to taking the gearbox apart, which is going to be handy if you go anywhere on it ).

cheers
Mark