The FrankenBrick Smart BMW build

[touchwoodsden]

Ah, Motorcycle Sport with that sort of pinky red banner across the top. They did indeed feature MZs regularly. If ever you read those old reports, they seem so corny now. As you may be aware, I have a little involvement with the MZ Riders club (I am the National Chairman!).

I have already advised the insurer that the bike has a sidecar attached so that’s the biggest worry out of the way.

I have had conflicting advice about whether it should be registered as a three wheeler/tricycle or not and I must admit I prefer your version of events. I have written back to DVLA and told them it’s not a conversion and to send the V5 back

[touchwoodsden]

Duplicate removed

[gilburton]

Final reply on sidecars lol

http://simplysidecars.co.uk/sidecarlaw.html

Now MZ's for my sins I have owned a Trophy Sports,TS250,TS125.
and finally
diesel ETZ250 ( I no longer own any of them)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1061073288 ... 9633912018

[touchwoodsden]

Final reply on sidecars lol

http://simplysidecars.co.uk/sidecarlaw.html

Now MZ's for my sins I have owned a Trophy Sports,TS250,TS125.
and finally
diesel ETZ250 ( I no longer own any of them)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1061073288 ... 9633912018

Yes, Dave Angel's site. I know Dave . Kind regards

UPDATE: Just watched the MZ diesel. NicE!

[bean juice]

Here is simplified wiring from the USA




However the sensor names on the Merc data sheet page didn’t match up with the descriptions on the Specialist Components Ltd (SC) ECU Spreadsheet. I figured however that as I was spending well over a grand for the stand-alone SC ECU (which doesn’t have all the extra car connections in the loom which you don’t need on a motorcycle) the least SC could do was talk me through a description of each pin connection so that I could make an idiots guide, firstly for me, (number 1 idiot) and also for any of those who follow.

I will post future updates I get round to it.
I hope you’ve enjoyed reading and haven’t fallen asleep or lost the will to live.

Hi. sorry I'm late. I see you found my blog (that's the schematic I did for the SC ECU). I've actually been actively working on my Smart based bike recently but have yet to update the page. I haven't gone through this entire thread yet, but I have a feeling I'm about to be late for work now that I've found it. I can hopefully answer questions about the SC ECU implementation. I was recently helping a University of Buffalo team get a smart engine running as part of a clean snowmobile challenge.

Anyway Hola. Nice to see another Smart build!

[bean juice]

Thanks Neil.
I am going to use the original K 100 in tank pump and canister filter because obviously, in the original petrol driven bike those injectors didn’t like dirt either. The fuel pump runs at about 3-4 bar which I am told is fine to feed the injector pump.

It’s a shame the other ECU is “out of print”. I believe that the SC is extremely flexible although with the Injector Driver Module it’s not small. Simon (who has been very helpful answering my stupid questions) says that there is already a map in there which may only want tweaking. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

If it had been €6000 I would never have started and I would have ended up waiting for a Daihatsu Charade motor.

There are a number of aftermarket ECU options for CDI engines but Neil is right in that most of them start in the $5-6K range. The SC is by far the most bang for the buck. The base map in the SC will get the engine running and is a pretty good universal map. FWIW the Mega Squirt is totally unsuitable for diesel engines as to start the timing resolution is nowhere near precise enough. FWIW the Bosch/Mercedes CDI ECU has a clock speed of 80 -150mhz vs megasquirts 8mhz, with crank speed/position calculated from the sensor every .5°.

[touchwoodsden]

I sent some money off to Germany today by IBAN. If ever you have the need to do that, get the bank to do it and be prepared for a long wait and a lot of planning around. I guess in London, they may have more experience of it.
So, next week I should have 5 shiny new gears to increase the gear ratios in the K-1 hundred gearbox and final drive.
I am still waiting for the frame to come back from the powder coaters and realised the other day that I haven’t sent the centre stand or side stand. The stands have been prone to cracking so I’m going to do a little bit of reinforcement before I send them off. Still, it won’t hold up the rest of the build because I have a spare that I could use as a slave stand meanwhile.
At the moment, the workshop is so untidy I can’t get to anything. Before I do anything else, I’m going to have a grand spring clean tidy up.

[mark_in_manchester]

[quote="touchwoodsden"]...
So, next week I should have 5 shiny new gears to increase the gear ratios in the K-1 hundred gearbox and final drive...
[/quote]

Argh - my cheque book is sh*tting itself just hearing about your fearless commitment to diesel motorcycling

5 new gears? A crown-wheel and pinion, a pair of gears to raise the top ratio, and...one spare one for luck?

[touchwoodsden]

I had a bit of a tidy up. I emphasise, “a bit” of a tidy up. I had to because I decided to get a couple of motorcycles MOT today (I didn’t have a single one out of 8 with a current MOT) so that I could go for a little ride as the weather was getting better.
I must admit my commitment to diesel motorcycling frightens me. This project is way beyond budget but, what the heck? I can always get rid of it.
The gears are on the way. I have a tracking number but don’t know the carrier is. LOL. my cheque-book did sh*t itself but I’m sure that the bank manager did. It was an interesting time in the bank because it’s just a small one-horse town bank and I think they probably do IBAN payments a couple of times a year. There were lots of discussions and peering screens and looking over the shoulders and whispering into ears and pointing the screen.
Yes, five gears. The 3 input gears for the gearbox and the final drive pair. They won’t be perfect ratios but far better than the original.
With regard to the shitting, it was a very expensive €600 sh*t. In fact, it was probably the most expensive sh*t that I have ever had.
Why have I gone the Smart Diesel route? Because I couldn’t get a Charade and I didn’t want something that did 10 miles an hour flat out on chip fat even though it would do 3 million miles per litre because I didn’t want something that sounded like a cross between a dumper truck and a concrete mixer and would rattle the gonads.
I am shitting myself at the very thought of taking the final drive apart and the gearbox and changing the gears. Gears and gearboxes and final drives are all a black art.
Give me a commercial lease to advise on, any day of the week.

[mark_in_manchester]

You lost me on the gearbox gears - I guess like a Ural they are in constant mesh (that is, each clutch shaft gear meshes with it's partner on the o/p shaft, all the time)? This means that on a Ural you change them in pairs (actually, only the pair for top gear is changeable, the three others being cast into the clutch shaft. On a Dnepr you can change 3rd and 4th, which is what I have just done - but I only had to buy 2 gears as I re-used the old 4th as the new 3rd. But I think a BM gearbox has three shafts...not sure why they needed three!

[gearhead1951]

2 gears in a train means the output shaft rotates opposite the input ! 3 gears in train means that the output shaft turns the same direction as the input !! Which one is used depends on how the mfg wants to set up the drive train ( a chain drive transverse crank set up requires output rotating same as input , shaft drive fore & aft crank set up can be either depending on the final drive rear wheel set up !!

[BertTrack]

I still have the 2.54 ratio gears laying around that was originally in the Track.

Maybe you could use those.

[touchwoodsden]

As BMW were designing from scratch they could have had 2 gear sets and had engine rotate the otherway. But as with the indicator switches, which need 3 switches rather than one, why use 2 sets when you can have 3 .
The input shaft us just that. It has a shock absorber and then simply meshes with the cluster

[gearhead1951]

Or they could have made the right angle drive at the axle set up to the correct rotation of the wheel ! Some of the Russian knockoffs ran the drive shaft on the opposite side from the BMW so had to set the driven gear outboard to get the rotation right !!

[mark_in_manchester]

The way I heard it, the Russian bikes were a straight copy using drawings and tooling supplied by the Germans at the start of the war, when Hitler and Stalin were still talking. This suggests pre-war BMW gearboxes and FD gears are the same way round as Urals were and still are, because change didn't come quickly on USSR production lines!

[touchwoodsden]

The way I heard it, the Russian bikes were a straight copy using drawings and tooling supplied by the Germans at the start of the war, when Hitler and Stalin were still talking. This suggests pre-war BMW gearboxes and FD gears are the same way round as Urals were and still are, because change didn't come quickly on USSR production lines!

I am away till weekend so expect gear pics next week. The gears should be with a neighbour now I guess as I havent been there to take delivery and my neighbours are ace like that.

[touchwoodsden]

The gears arrived courtesy of Hubert Teller from Germany and I cannot begin to imagine the work was involved in drawing designing and working out the gear ratios. Not cheap at €600 but in my opinion, worth every penny. The set involves three pieces for the gearbox and 2 pieces for the final drive. Big thanks to Hubert and Stuart for putting me in touch.

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Those who have only just joined us, this is to increase the speed at the rear wheel bearing in mind that the diesel motor turns over at about half the speed of the original BMW K 100 engine.

I did a little bit of engraving on the gear selector forks using a carbide burr in a Dremel so that I know which way the selector forks go back in.
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The input shaft (with shock absorber) and output shaft gear replacements were simple enough but the intermediate shaft is a press together fit and requires a hydraulic press to remove and replace the large gear.
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I have a 10 ton press which should do the job but it’s hidden deep down in the workshop so I’m going to have to do some digging.
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I guess that setting up the final drive is going to be “interesting” but, we’ll just have to see. I don’t know whether the shims are easily available or not. We shall see.
As soon as the gearbox is done, I’m going to be on with the rest of it because the final drive is going to be “challenging”. However, the moment, I’m still waiting for the frame and other metal parts to come back from powder coating. The firm I use is slow the job they do is fantastic and they also mask off everything needs to be masked such as bearing orifices.

I did give him a gentle prod last week. Fingers crossed, in the next week.

[touchwoodsden]

As things have been a bit quiet on here for a while. Quite a while, I thought I would update because after such a fantastic start, everything that outside my control has gone tits up or is in danger of going tits up.
Things have ground to a halt but through no fault of mine.
I sent the frame and other parts off to the powder coater about 6 weeks ago and I’m still waiting. I use him because although he is slow, he does a fantastic job and he masks off everything that needs masking. I’m hoping to have it by the end of the month.
I have replaced 2 of the gearbox gears but the intermediate shaft in the gearbox needs a 40 ton press to press the old gear off and put the new one back on. I have tried 10 tonnes and 20 tonnes and that won’t touch it. I have an engineering company that will potentially do it for me and I am seeing them in the morning. I can then put the gearbox back together and tackle the final drive but meanwhile, I am still waiting for the frame.
I have yet to tackle the final drive which is going to be an “experience”
Fingers crossed, the gearbox will be ready for assembly tomorrow. If I can remember where all the bits go!
Other than that, and then the wiring and the exhaust, everything else is hot to trot apart from the plastic side panels seat home and faring and front mudguard which need flatting down and painting. I will do it myself outside on a dry day. I have done it before. However I’m not going to bust a gut over that because of the worst came to the worst, I could simply leave the paint as it is.
The exhaust is hopefully no biggie and I have found a company in China that can send me the various elbows that I need in stainless steel. I can buy the stainless steel pipe in this country and then just tack it in place and get it TIG welded by my mate. I did have a guy who promised he would do the whole thing for me but as you might expect, he let me down. If the worst comes to the worst and that is all that is holding me up, I will lash something up from bits of old car exhaust in mild steel just to get going.
I keep finding little things that I need to buy and one of them is a clutch lever because I am not using the BMW switches, I am using Honda VFR as they are easy to wire. I have all the relevant connectors now already.
I am also going to use Koso instruments because I think the BMW items are simply going to be too much finding around. I looked on the electronic instruments stand at the Stafford show (I go every April and every October with the MZ club) and I do love the Smiths speedo and rev counter but at over £200 per instrument, I would need to donate the other kidney!
I was hoping to go to the Diesel Motorcycle rally at Hamm in Germany on the weekend around 12 September but time is the enemy now. I am almost 2 months behind my schedule and I may end up having to go on one of my MZ’s. Still, it’s all part of the experience.

[touchwoodsden]

I just thought I would update readers on the gears.
Hubert Teller said that removal of the rebel intermediate gear which is pressed on needed 40 tonnes but as I have a 10 tonne press I thought I would try it obviously with no luck. I then tried a friends 20 tonne and it wouldn’t budge.
So today, I visited a friend of a friend who has a huge hydroelectric 50 tonne press. It’s very controllable.
I measured the overall distance over the gears so that the end float would be the same.
The gear slid off with no problem at all. In fact, the tonnage gauge didn’t even register.
The guy who owns the press refused to press the handle in case something broke so he left that to me. Great fun. It would be wonderful for cracking nuts that Christmas because you know how awkward it is when you crush the shell and the not ends up in 27 million tiny pieces.

The new gear similarly, went on into exactly the same position. The whole job took 10 minutes altogether. The press made it look as easy as sticking a finger into margarine.
I have to put the gearbox back together now and then think about the final drive. At least now, with the gearbox back together I can stick it on the engine ready to fit the whole shooting match in the frame.

Note to self: Ring and chase powder coaters. NOW

[Tetronator]

All a man needs in life, a 50 tonne press.

[touchwoodsden]

All a man needs in life, a 50 tonne press.

Indeed. Could make cider or wine!

[touchwoodsden]

The gearbox is all back together. Relatively straightforward. I’m hoping that it has gears! I’m hoping that it has 5 gears!!

Here is the cluster before changing the gears.

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Taking the final drive apart is not for the fainthearted. I’m sure that shimming it up, on rebuild, is going to be “interesting”. Mine is now in a zillion pieces and ready for reassembly.

Don’t even attempt to strip the K 100 final drive unless you have a 36 mm impact socket, a long bar, and a tool to remove the 4 slotted ring nut which holds in the final drive pinion. I made the tool by welding 4 wings onto an old socket. They are both v tight. The manual says use heat.

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You are also going to need a 10 ton press to get the centre out of the crown wheel and place it back in and to assist in removing and replacing the large circular ball race.

Finally, you are going to need a lot of heat because the input gear bearing will not come out unless the aluminium casing is stinking hot, about 150° C. I gauge the temperature by spitting on it. If it sizzles a bit, it’s hot. If it sizzles a lot, then that’s okay.

Probably the most difficult job of all was removing the inner bearing race from the nose of the input pinion because there is nothing to get the bearing puller behind. I ended up grinding two small slots with a 1 mm grinding wheel into the old pinion to enable me to get two large screwdrivers and to leverage up slightly and then put the bearing puller on it. That one job took longer than any other single job on the final drive.

[Tetronator]

Custom tooling, always fun.

[touchwoodsden]

Assembled cluster with new gears in situ. Pretty isn’t it? Background is the back of a roll of wallpaper.

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[touchwoodsden]

Progress in photographs. FRame and bits back from powder coat.
Engine and gearbox together. Clutch feels operational. Front engine mountings just need a spacer tube on each side and then bolting up and a few washers.
Switch gear replaced with Honda VFR.
I haven’t managed to set up the high ratio final drive so for now, I’m going to put a spare RS final drive on. Tomorrow should see it on its wheels and then, I really need to set to with the wiring.
I was going to put the ECU and Injector Driver module on top of the battery where the original relay box was but I’ve decided there is not enough room so I’m going to put them in the tail unit. Unfortunately, it means lengthening about 15 wires which is just something I’m going to have to do.
I am still hoping to make Hamm, but tempus fugit.


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[Stuart]

My ECU is in the tail housing. Would be interested to know what throttle assy you use as they've come on a ways since Neil put my Tiger together. Kees says they are 5k ohm? I need something with a little more damping and/or feel in it.


Stuart

[BertTrack]

I see the pipes running to the radiator are flowing bottom up. So you're pushing warm coolant in at the bottom.

As far as i know (and i don't know everything!) that should be the other way around. One of the tricky issues with that engine is piping.

[touchwoodsden]

Hi Stuart.
I spoke to Specialist Components and they suggested throttle assembly fly by wire from an Aprilia RSV100. I got one from a Aprilia Shiver which is slightly different physically but the same electronically.
It feels in all honesty just like an ordinary throttle.
An interesting point Bert. I don’t know whether it’s going to make any difference, but that’s the way it’s going to stay for now. Hot water rises anyway so perhaps the Thermo siphon effect will assist the pump.
I had an MG Midget where the hot water went in the bottom.
I have decided that with regard to the wiring, I am going to do it a bit at a time.
Perhaps even just one little job per day.
Main ignition relay and ignition switch and kill switch.
Starter relay and button
Glow plug relay
ECU etc
Lights and
horn and
instruments
at the moment, the wiring is a mountain to climb. If someone would do the whole job and just give it back to me so that I could press the button and make the whole thing burp and illuminate, I would happily pay them a few hundred quid.
The only mechanical thing I have now to sort is the exhaust.

[touchwoodsden]

Hi Stuart.
I spoke to Specialist Components and they suggested throttle assembly fly by wire from an Aprilia RSV100. I got one from a Aprilia Shiver which is slightly different physically but the same electronically.
It feels in all honesty just like an ordinary throttle.
An interesting point Bert. I don’t know whether it’s going to make any difference, but that’s the way it’s going to stay for now. Hot water rises anyway so perhaps the Thermo siphon effect will assist the pump.
I had an MG Midget where the hot water went in the bottom.
I have decided that with regard to the wiring, I am going to do it a bit at a time.
Perhaps even just one little job per day.
Main ignition relay and ignition switch and kill switch.
Starter relay and button
Glow plug relay
ECU etc
Lights and
horn and
instruments
at the moment, the wiring is a mountain to climb. If someone would do the whole job and just give it back to me so that I could press the button and make the whole thing burp and illuminate, I would happily pay them a few hundred quid.
The only mechanical thing I have now to sort is the exhaust.

[touchwoodsden]

My cat watching me post these pictures.
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I couldn’t resist a photograph with the fuel tank and seat loosely in position.
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I extended the wiring so that the electronics will be in the tail unit. The colours are a bit mishmash but by and large, they match.
url=https://flic.kr/p/K8TKWf][/url]DSC04884

It’s been so long since I looked at the relay box, I can’t remember where anything went. I did have it spinning the motor and the various relays working but since I took it all apart, my memory has gone. I think I’m going to have to start from scratch.
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I put an isolator “just in case”
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No, it isn’t going to be a hard tail. I have just ordered a new re-buildable shock absorber and it has not yet arrived.
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