Diesel Bike Diary

[pietenpol2002]

First - great 3D modelling.

And then, have you studied Mouse's coupling of a BMW box to the 482? Should be some similarities as the Ural/Dneprs are derivatives of the Beemer and the 482 is the 2 cylinder little sister of the 722. Mouse has over 25,000 miles on his. Must have done something right.

https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/view ... 479#p13479

https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/view ... 392#p13392

[Tetronator]

First - great 3D modelling.

And then, have you studied Mouse's coupling of a BMW box to the 482? Should be some similarities as the Ural/Dneprs are derivatives of the Beemer and the 482 is the 2 cylinder little sister of the 722. Mouse has over 25,000 miles on his. Must have done something right.

https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/view ... 479#p13479

https://www.dieselbikeforum.com/view ... 392#p13392

Thank you, alltough the program I used, Sketchup, was a really bad replacement for SolidWorks. But hey, its free and I do not have the money for SolidWorks...

Yes, I have studied his contraptions. I even suggested using an R80 gearbox in one of my earlier posts.
The BMW gearbox, doesn't have a kickstarter and kubotas come with a one way mounting of the flywheel as I think that has to do with the external balancing as spoken off before.
The bolt holes are offset by a few degrees so it only mounts one way. BMW flywheels are not offset.
That and I do not think there are readily available gears for an R80 gearbox to change the gearing.

[garbs]

I vote for the kink frame design. Thay way you keep your ground clearance and room for a gas tank around the top frame tube. Second choice would be the double tube design.
My D722 came with a starter which doesnt have the housing on the front, maybe you can modify one or get one similar to mine. This way your third try would work. The 4th try could work well too if you cant solve the starter issue.

[/img]

For my bike I mated the flywheel to a very big and heavy htd pulley. The kubota flywheel was machined as much as possible while keeping clearance for the starter cog. A centering ring was left on the kubota flywheel for the machined htd pulley to fit over. The center of my htd pulley was machined out for secondary clutch clearance (nose spins inside of the hollow). The finished combo was lighter than the unmodified pulley by far and close to the original flywheel weight. Doing it this way, mating them together, you know the spring holes and clutch pins are all perfect positioned. My machinist threaded holes through while they where mated so 4 allenkey head bolts hold them together.

In machining the flywheel, a small portion of the balancing holes was removed, about 2mm. In the picture you can see the backside of the pulley through them. I would have prefered to machine the holes back to stock but a forum memeber pointed out that the pulley likely had enough imbalance to cancel the small amount out anyways. If you were to premeasure the depth/volume of the holes, you could machine them back to stock size once the two were mated.

[garbs]

Best case scenario would be to check the balance of the flywheel before modifying and rebalance the assembly after to match. This only needs to be done if you machine enough off to reach the balancing holes.

[Tetronator]

I vote for the kink frame design. Thay way you keep your ground clearance and room for a gas tank around the top frame tube. Second choice would be the double tube design.
My D722 came with a starter which doesnt have the housing on the front, maybe you can modify one or get one similar to mine. This way your third try wold work. The 4th try could work well too if you cant solve the starter issue.

20150111_225404.jpg

[/img]

That'd be great, because that housing is really causing me a headache. Yes I was also thinking off using the kink frame design, just wondering if the frame is strong enough the hold the weight. And I'll lose the cool gas tank then... O well, I can think of off a cool gastank myself.

For my bike I mated the flywheel to a very big and heavy htd pulley. The kubota flywheel was machined as much as possible while keeping clearance for the starter cog. A centering ring was left on the kubota flywheel for the machined htd pulley to fit over. The center of my htd pulley was machined out for secondary clutch clearance (nose spins inside of the hollow). The finished combo was lighter than the unmodified pulley by far and close to the original flywheel weight. Doing it this way, mating them together, you know the spring holes and clutch pins are all perfect positioned. My machinist threaded holes through while they where mated so 4 allenkey head bolts hold them together.

20150111_225003.jpg

20150111_224844.jpg

In machining the flywheel, a small portion of the balancing holes was removed, about 2mm. In the picture you can see the backside of the pulley through them. I would have prefered to machine the holes back to stock but a forum memeber pointed out that the pulley likely had enough imbalance to cancel the small amount out anyways. If you were to premeasure the depth/volume of the holes, you could machine them back to stock size once the two were mated.

20150111_224932.jpg

Hmm, maybe you got lucky in the balancing? Maybe its possible to re-balance and machine the proper "imbalance" back into the custom flywheel? Eitherway any space saved in that clutch adaption is regained at the front of the engine for other stuff.

Thanks for your detailed input, that housingless starter has given me hope on that front. See if I can contact the supplier about this.

[garbs]

My engine is out of a reefer unit. The tag on the starter says

Carrier Transicold
25-35465-00RM

[coachgeo]

again reminder.... you can drop the starter conflicts by going to a starter/generator.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2410&p=16791

[garbs]

Also I believe I may have written my second post regarding this "Maybe its possible to re-balance and machine the proper "imbalance" back into the custom flywheel?"
While you were typing your response. Yes, that would be ideal. I wish I had done it this way just for peace of mind if nothing else.

[garbs]

I googled the part number and got good results. Cheapest i found in a quick look was $90. You may be able to get a used one or they may be cheaper in your area.

[Tetronator]

again reminder.... you can drop the starter conflicts by going to a starter/generator.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2410&p=16791

Again? Must've missed it... But thats a great idea, I will look into it once I get back from my runabout today.

I googled the part number and got good results. Cheapest i found in a quick look was $90. You may be able to get a used one or they may be cheaper in your area.

Might be so, what part number was it?

This bit?
Carrier Transicold
25-35465-00RM

Also I believe I may have written my second post regarding this "Maybe its possible to re-balance and machine the proper "imbalance" back into the custom flywheel?"
While you were typing your response. Yes, that would be ideal. I wish I had done it this way just for peace of mind if nothing else.

Whoops, was still drinking my morning coffee... Might've overlooked it, will discuss possibilities with Boutje.

[garbs]

Yep thats the bit. Your conumdrum with the starter made me realise I am going to have the same issue with my z482 hitting the toothed belt when i bolt my first drive system to it. My z482 starter also has the housing on the end.

[Tetronator]

Yep thats the bit. Your conumdrum with the starter made me realise I am going to have the same issue with my z482 hitting the toothed belt when i bolt my first drive system to it. My z482 starter also has the housing on the end.

Is the housing removable? Because if it is, and it still works, that makes things easy.

[garbs]

No it is cast into the one half of the starter body.

[Tetronator]

O well, worth a shot right?

[garbs]

Im sure it could be removed, cut or machined off. But I wonder if the internals are different than the non housimng version and the shaft needs the support of the housing at the end of the shaft. The non housing ones may be made differnet to not need that extra support. I really dont know anything about starters so just a thought. I can get some pics of the housing version if u want.

[Tetronator]

Thats OK, I've got the 3D model.

[Tetronator]

# 5 - Moving along!
Date: 9-4-2015
Status: Intermission

Right, almost one year since my first post about this build but things have been happening all tough not directly connected to the dieselbike.

First off all I am moving to a new house, which means I'll finally have the space to build the darned thing!
This does mean my project has been on hold for a bit now, hopefully I'll be able to continue as soon as I move into the new house and things settle down.
Secondly, I've got my main funds goal completed so I'm green on that front as well!...
...Provided I do not get any really big unexpected costs...
...Which might be a thing as this is still a custom motorcycle...

...Anyway!...

In terms of actual design, Boutje suggested using a car clutchpack to fix the starter ring problems along with a custom flywheel.
He said, that he can machine the original "imbalance" into the new custom flywheel and also move the starter ring over.
This will also make the entire thing way more compact.

Hopefully I'll be able to go to the Big Knock this year as that will likely cut into the funds I reserved for the dieselbike, but it
might simply be worth it to see what problems and solutions you guys encountered and came up with.

That's all for now, making up for the righteously massive post of last time I guess. More to come, (hopefully not too much), later!

[Tetronator]

# 6 - Back on track.
Date: 19-6-2015
Status: Obtaining parts

Checking in with good news!

I have moved into my new house and...

I'VE GOT MY SHED!

DER SHED.

Took me long enough to build the darned thing... (Tip: Don't buy sheds manufactured in the UAE... )

Anyway, back on track!...

I've got the space, budget, and plans to build my bike.
Now I need the parts, primarily a Dnepr K750 donor bike and a Kubota D722 engine.

My visit to the Big Knock this year has yielded plenty of information including an issue with Dnepr brake drums... ...Which is fixable I think. I'll let you guys know more once I start working on that.

Firstly I'll build the bike and hopefully in time for the next Hamm rally, a long shot I know but you might just see me there on a rough version of my bike!

That's all for now really, not a lot but once again please let me know what you think.

[Tetronator]

# 7 - Engine!
Date: 6-7-2015
Status: Obtaining parts

I've bought an Kubota D722!

But it doesn't want to turn over.

Starter does this:
https://youtu.be/v4wU742dwl4s

First I thought I had it the polarity the wrong way around but it does the same thing either way.
So either the starter ist kaputt or the battery doesn't have enough juice left in it. (Measured 12v, leaving it charging overnight, try again tomorrow)

Engine isn't seized because I can actually grab the lower pulley and turn it around trough its compression by hand, so the starter should have no problems with this.

Anyone offer advice on the matter?

Edit; Obligatory https://youtu.be/v3y7CvHxF54?t=4m12s

[BertTrack]

Sound like the starter is turning but the pinion (i think it's called that) doesn't move into the flywheel. WD40? it up.? maybe

Or tap it in the axle direction with something?

[pietenpol2002]

From the video it appears the bendix pinion is indeed engaging the flywheel, suggesting the plunger and contacts are OK. And then is that in fact the sound of the motor spinning over? If so, it might suggest a failed clutch. Check out the video below for more details. While it's not Kubota specific, I believe the gear reduction Denso starters are mostly variations on a theme. And if you were a bit closer, I've got a fresh spare you could use to get you up and running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDis00-nWcY

Interestingly, earlier versions of the 722 used a direct drive Denso with the same part number as the 4 cyl. Toyotas from the 70s. Rebuilds can be had here in the states for $29.99 if you're going on the cheap. But, they're heavy and none too powerful. You'll note too that unlike your gear reduction version, they have the nose that protrudes into the bellhousing.

http://www.autozone.com/external-engine ... _192749_0/

[Tetronator]

Engine! #2
Date: 7-7-2015

Well then, I've gotten the starter engine to work!
Seems the bendix was stuck... ...What a rubber mallet can't fix in this world...

But now I cant seem to get the air out of the system, so... Anyone have a clue on what I'm doing wrong here?

https://youtu.be/bKKuqeQ_zeE

I did get diesel to the flywheel side injector after recording this. But it wasn't much.

[alexanderfoti]

Is your governer linkage pulled all the way open for max fuelling?

[Tetronator]

Is your governer linkage pulled all the way open for max fuelling?

Yeah it is, I forgot to do it in the video.

(The lower one right?...)

[alexanderfoti]

Aha, Yes its the lower one.

The upper one (fuel cut off) is in the netural position and not in the cut off position?

[Tetronator]

Aha, Yes its the lower one.

The upper one (fuel cut off) is in the netural position and not in the cut off position?

I take it cut off is pulling the lever and neutral is just leaving it as is? If so, then yes.

On a side note the engine used to have 2 MASSIVE solenoids stuck to the side which weighed a freaking ton, so I removed them.
It came from a lorry refrigeration unit.

[alexanderfoti]

Yes the cut off one is pulled by the big solenoid for 5 seconds then released again, so that should be ok, just ensure its pushed all the way forward.

The other one is likely to be for the throttle control.

[Tetronator]

Yes the cut off one is pulled by the big solenoid for 5 seconds then released again, so that should be ok, just ensure its pushed all the way forward.

The other one is likely to be for the throttle control.

Yeah, I guessed as much. I had the governer linkage all the way to the back and I even screwed out the set screw which prevented me to pull it back even further.

[alexanderfoti]

Then im lost

[sbrumby]

If I were testing an engine I would have the fuel coming from the bottom of the can higher than the engine that way anything shows itself as a leak of fuel and air is ruled out. Secondly if the engine does not strike up straight away give it a squirt of easystart. Starter motors are only designed for really short periods of use.