Engine for my bike !

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:13 pm

I have a Harley sporty rolling chassis and want to put a 1.4 Natrul ass diesel engine in it, obviously transverse and want to block off one side of the diff and run a shaft to a goldwing (70s version) rear wheel and hub.

When i hunt for the engine and look for the componants that should be on there when they state complete mote !! are :-

Alt
reg
injection pump
manifold
and.....(what else to look for)
what minimal electrics should i look for as not being a car engine orientated bloke having only dealt with bikes.

Also any issues with ratios connection the diff to a G/wing rear wheel or will the gear box deal with this ect

Mouse · Post by **Mouse** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:02 pm

Diff blanked off? ie double the speed of the remaining ??
I'm not sure how the planetary gears of the diff will stand up to that. Remember in normal operation they hardly move relative to each other. However I dont know anyone whos tried this so cant actually comment on reliability.

There are a couple of German built bikes, and Haydens in the UK that lock the dif and then use a 1:1 industrial bevel box on the rear.

gearhead1951 · Post by **gearhead1951** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:23 pm

I assume he means locked , not blanked off . If you lock (weld up the spider gears)the speed stays the same for both axles regardless of which one has the load ! You then blank off the axle hole you aint gonna use !!

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:04 pm

gearhead1951 wrote:I assume he means locked , not blanked off . If you lock (weld up the spider gears)the speed stays the same for both axles regardless of which one has the load ! You then blank off the axle hole you aint gonna use !!

Yes locked off ......blank off the side not in use ! thought that it could be a winner !

see below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFyPyA5vVSc

This motor is small from a dhiatsu thingy ma jig ?

sbrumby · Post by **sbrumby** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:15 pm

I think what Mouse is saying is that if you lock off the diff then the speed at the drive shaft is wheel speed, if you then marry that to a goldwing diff which is likely to be about 3 to 1 your maximum speed will probably be about 15mph.

Mouse · Post by **Mouse** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:17 pm

Flatfour wrote: Yes locked off ......blank off the side not in use ! thought that it could be a winner !
see below
This motor is small from a dhiatsu thingy ma jig ?

Then check your gear ratios. The output shaft from the diff is at wheel rpm the bike bevel box will add a further 3:1 to that which will result in a rather dismal top speed if you've not careful.

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Mouse wrote:
Flatfour wrote: Yes locked off ......blank off the side not in use ! thought that it could be a winner !
see below
This motor is small from a dhiatsu thingy ma jig ?
Then check your gear ratios. The output shaft from the diff is at wheel rpm the bike bevel box will add a further 3:1 to that which will result in a rather dismal top speed if you've not careful.

May need help with ratio's my maths aren't that good but i usually get there lol, but fabrication is usually good lol

Carfolio ratio's here http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/ ... ?car=27324 final drive is 3.59 and 2.8 on the 1500 G/Wings ?? ?

sbrumby · Post by **sbrumby** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:23 pm

Another thing to consider on your project, is most chain driven bikes the swing arm is 9" wide, on a shaft drive the swing arm is 11" wide and because it doest have a bolt to hold it together the frame has to be much stonger and take force from a different direction.

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:52 am

Not really worried about that can get that re worked done it before, only thing is connecting said engine to final drive.

sbrumby · Post by **sbrumby** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:40 pm

You can take it from me because I have actually done it, all be it the opposite way round ( shaft to chain drive ) marrying the engine to the shaft drive is the easy bit.

coachgeo · Post by **coachgeo** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:45 pm

Do it like the Track Bike. Do a flywheel to the rear engine orientation. Then a CVT to a front to rear jackshaft. Secondary pulley on one side of that shaft and a joint ( Universal joint, CV joint, ?? ) on the other side that the Goldwing driveline connects to.

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:30 pm

coachgeo wrote:Do it like the Track Bike. Do a flywheel to the rear engine orientation. Then a CVT to a front to rear jackshaft. Secondary pulley on one side of that shaft and a joint ( Universal joint, CV joint, ?? ) on the other side that the Goldwing driveline connects to.

I kind of understand

dont suppose you could rough sketch it out !!

i managed to get 1.4 saxa engine and really wanna push on with the project

gilburton · Post by **gilburton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:39 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnrX5DSYhhw
I think he means like this.
You could search the scrapyards or ebay for an Aixam or other microcar cvt??
I've got an Aixam one on my MZ diesel.

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:22 am

Ok here goes below is a diagram of what i think was suggested and looks good, found CVT bits to buy new from image below (Good or Not?),
also would i need a specific pillow bearing to take the force of the drive ????? Does the 1.4 diesel saxo have a low enough idle and top end to give the bike power and sensible top end ?? with a gear box?

Also correct me if i'm wrong the CX500 rear swingarm ect components are the same as G/wing ??? shaft fittings ?

The only problem i have personally is that i'm not an engineer and would like to farm out the jobs of making the shafts and pins ect.

Would like to try and make it so the whole CVT bearing unit ect sits on a removable plate for ease of maintainance and fitting so its no hassle.

gilburton · Post by **gilburton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:06 am

Your sketch is fine except for one point. The drive unit cvt uses a tapered adapter to bolt to the flywheel. if you went for a french microcar cvt
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MICROCAR-MC1- ... 3a7cab02f0
you could make up a circular plate to bolt to the redundant clutch mounting holes on the flywheel and the adapter could be welded/bolted to the plate.
You will not need the extra bearing on the cvt unit,
The driven pulley on the microcars is 3/4" or 19mm and a straight keyed shaft can be used as per your drawing.
If buying a microcar cvt you will need the 2 pulleys,the tapered adapter,the long bolt which attaches the cvt to the adapter and of course the belt.
If you are looking at gemini karts for new parts have a look at the cvtech units as these are the type fitted to the cars and will be tougher especially if you are using a car engine. I used to dabble with the tud5 citroen/peugeot 1.5 unit and I have a seized engine here as well.
I'm not far from you(Kettering) so if you are going to gemini karts by all means drop in and I'll show you the adapter and my setup. pm me first though!

gilburton · Post by **gilburton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:09 am

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MICROCAR-VIRG ... 3cccfd3b10
I don't think the last link worked properly but they are all on this site. It's only over at Wisbech so I expect you could do a deal on all the items you require??
You won't need this flywheel but you can see the adapter .
http://www.graysofthrapston.co.uk/ are near me and do most of the replacement parts for the cvt eg weights if you wanted to alter the cvt??
You could ask about the cvt units but they are not known for cheapness as a dealer

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:40 am

gilburton wrote:Your sketch is fine except for one point. The drive unit cvt uses a tapered adapter to bolt to the flywheel. if you went for a french microcar cvt
#http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MICROCAR-MC1- ... 3a7cab02f0
you could make up a circular plate to bolt to the redundant clutch mounting holes on the flywheel and the adapter could be welded/bolted to the plate.
You will not need the extra bearing on the cvt unit,
The driven pulley on the microcars is 3/4" or 19mm and a straight keyed shaft can be used as per your drawing.
If buying a microcar cvt you will need the 2 pulleys,the tapered adapter,the long bolt which attaches the cvt to the adapter and of course the belt.
If you are looking at gemini karts for new parts have a look at the cvtech units as these are the type fitted to the cars and will be tougher especially if you are using a car engine. I used to dabble with the tud5 citroen/peugeot 1.5 unit and I have a seized engine here as well.
I'm not far from you(Kettering) so if you are going to gemini karts by all means drop in and I'll show you the adapter and my setup. pm me first though!

Excellent i could get the train down and have a look see and beer next week ish or after the new year !

gilburton · Post by **gilburton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:04 am

I work nights but am retiring at the end of January so anytime is fine.
I'm actually at Burton Latimer near Kettering just off the A14 so if you drive down you could also arrange a visit to gemini karts as well and you would then have a better idea of your requirements??
I'm about 30mins from Leicester and gemini karts is around 20 mins further on

Nanko · Post by **Nanko** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:53 pm

Flatfour wrote:Does the 1.4 diesel saxo have a low enough idle and top end to give the bike power and sensible top end ?? with a gear box?

This engine runs smoothly between 750 and 4750 rpm
But pay extra attention to the cooling system,TUD3's tend to run hot and blow the head gasket

coachgeo · Post by **coachgeo** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:29 pm

gilburton wrote:Your sketch is fine except for one point. The drive unit cvt uses a tapered adapter to bolt to the flywheel. if you went for a french microcar cvt
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MICROCAR-MC1- ... 3a7cab02f0
you could make up a circular plate to bolt to the redundant clutch mounting holes on the flywheel and the adapter could be welded/bolted to the plate.
You will not need the extra bearing on the cvt unit,
The driven pulley on the microcars is 3/4" or 19mm and a straight keyed shaft can be used as per your drawing....

That ebay ad is for a CVTech Powerbloc unit. Any parts are available thru a CVTech retailer. The powerbloc is manufactured in both a tapered shaft bore and a straight shaft "keyed" bore. Different manufactures of vehicles ordered one or the other. Apparently french went with the key

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:45 pm

Nanko wrote:
Flatfour wrote:Does the 1.4 diesel saxo have a low enough idle and top end to give the bike power and sensible top end ?? with a gear box?
This engine runs smoothly between 750 and 4750 rpm
But pay extra attention to the cooling system,TUD3's tend to run hot and blow the head gasket

Will be running a gl1000 radiator and might slide on a oil coolier too

also looked at the mottor and its a tall bugger has anyone shortened the sump slightly ?

Nanko · Post by **Nanko** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:13 pm

I'm almost sure it has a built-in oilcooler,placed between block and oilfilter.
It is liquid cooled so it acts as an oilheater too.
Unfortunately I had to remove mine because it hits the lower frame tubes.
If you have the chance to weight your aluminium block it would be nice to
see the difference between my cast iron TUD5.

gilburton · Post by **gilburton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:28 pm

Before you actually commit to mounting the engine and buying cvt or gearbox does the engine go in your frame acrossways (athwartships)japanese style or fore and aft(ex navy me)??
Sumps are easily modified/welded so that you keep the capacity and can make it slip between the frame.
You will either have to modify the frame rails, if fitted across, or stretch the frame if fitted longways.
If you're not too keen on cvt if fitted across you might consider a manual gearbox and keep the existing chain or belt drive rear end??
It all depends on available room in the frame you have chosen and the facilities you have available??
Either way most of your time will be taken up by trial fittings/making brackets etc. so don't let your enthusiasm run away until you are sure of the layout you find best.
Some people seem to knock up bikes every other week(sbrumby,mouse lol) but others can take years(me)

initially take your time and look at all info on this site to get ideas and it should help to ease the way.

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:21 pm

I've built chops and bobbers so i'm not alien to builds thats why i fact find first and build later, after i've had the design in my head ....i usually get all i need first so i know what and where and how much space i need.

but thanks .....but i'd rather have the engine inline with the bike.

gilburton · Post by **gilburton** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:18 pm

No problem there are a lot of people with varying skills or more enthusiasm than skill. You obviously know what you are letting yourself in for so go for it

If room is still a problem then the cvt is good for saving space. I have always had an idea to fit a brit gearbox sideways in similar fashion to the cvt drawing as it would be much smaller than the car gearbox. This would probably involve an extra shaft/chain but might fit alongside the car engine rather than behind it guzzi/bmw style.
A bmw/guzzi might be a better choice of frame as the engine would be better suited and the drive is already there.
Another option might be something with a delta box type frame? As you have found out the engine is tall and would probably slot "up" between the wide rails into a dummy tank??
I was having a think about your possible cvt choice and a petrol microcar version might be better and more suited to the higher revs of the car engine??

Just some ideas but if you are already commited to the Harley so be it. We all like a challenge

If you wanted to drop down to see my MZ Robin and in particular the cvt to take measurements then the best time would probably be a weekend.

coachgeo · Post by **coachgeo** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:43 am

I see the company you've listed sells several different company's products. The MaxToruque page your displaying..... IMHO looks to not be the one you want. The company's product aim is gocarts and their CVT has max 3/4 bore. A hint to me that it would be too weak for our task.

They do sell CVTech products too which is interesting

XLerate · Post by **XLerate** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:23 am

FYI on the reference to a 'pillow block bearing' in early post. In general a pillow block type bearing is typically a support bearing for a shaft and isn't normally designed for a thrust application.

If needed you would want a 'Thrust bearing' specifically designed to withstand pressures in direction that shaft runs. Often times thrust collars or additional thrust washers are needed where there's continuous loads applied along axis of shaft. Thrust bearings are normally a tapered bearing, roller type. Standard pillow block ball bearings will fail.

In another reference the 'pillow block' is the support piece or mounting framework, not the actual bearing itself. By that it's possible to have a tapered roller thrust bearing mounted in a pillow block.

Flatfour · Post by **Flatfour** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:46 pm

XLerate wrote:FYI on the reference to a 'pillow block bearing' in early post. In general a pillow block type bearing is typically a support bearing for a shaft and isn't normally designed for a thrust application.

If needed you would want a 'Thrust bearing' specifically designed to withstand pressures in direction that shaft runs. Often times thrust collars or additional thrust washers are needed where there's continuous loads applied along axis of shaft. Thrust bearings are normally a tapered bearing, roller type. Standard pillow block ball bearings will fail.

In another reference the 'pillow block' is the support piece or mounting framework, not the actual bearing itself. By that it's possible to have a tapered roller thrust bearing mounted in a pillow block.

Do you have a reference to a site displaying these so i can source some here !! i was gonna use http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/

pietenpol2002 · Post by **pietenpol2002** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:18 pm

If your question is regarding the sourcing of thrust bearings, I don't believe anything discussed thus far in this thread requires thrust bearings. Conventional roller/pillow blocks should suffice, unless I missed something.

XLerate · Post by **XLerate** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:39 pm

Flatfour wrote:
XLerate wrote:FYI on the reference to a 'pillow block bearing' in early post. In general a pillow block type bearing is typically a support bearing for a shaft and isn't normally designed for a thrust application.

If needed you would want a 'Thrust bearing' specifically designed to withstand pressures in direction that shaft runs. Often times thrust collars or additional thrust washers are needed where there's continuous loads applied along axis of shaft. Thrust bearings are normally a tapered bearing, roller type. Standard pillow block ball bearings will fail.

In another reference the 'pillow block' is the support piece or mounting framework, not the actual bearing itself. By that it's possible to have a tapered roller thrust bearing mounted in a pillow block.

Do you have a reference to a site displaying these so i can source some here !! i was gonna use http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/

Don't have a direct link for the UK, sorry.

Any bearing vendor will know exactly what you're talking about. A tapered roller thrust bearing is found at the front wheel bearings of all cars with rear wheel drive. For U.S.A. brands in top quality bearings there are several, mainly Timken, SKF owned now by Timken and slightly cheaper line, RBC/Tyson are also good quality, plus whoever makes quality bearings in GB. Any industrial supplier will have all sorts of thrust bearings in stock because they're used everywhere in so many types of machinery. Also tractor supply places have them, used in PTO driven equipment etc.

A Yahoo Search for - Bearings tapered roller thrust bearing - will turn out pages of hits.

http://timken.com/en-us/products/bearin ... fault.aspx

http://www.skf.com/group/products/index ... ink=1_15_3

http://www.rbcbearings.com/tapered/tapered.htm

Above links will fill your brain with volumes of information you never needed to know, plus the straight skinny on thrust bearings.

.

DieselBike.net

Engine for my bike !

Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !

Re: Engine for my bike !