New guy with a motor question *UPDATE*- see latest post

[mr fixit]

First, hello.
I'm new to this site, but not new to building things. Never done a bike though.

My background is is "building stuff". I started as a welder (trained in high school), have worked as an assembly tech at Texas Instruments, have worked as an electronics tech, I've done a bit of machine work,and also have done a bit of plumbing and electrical work. I am currently a firefighter.
I make my own biodiesel, and have made my own processors. I also work on guns for fun.

I think I have the ability to make it work, but I am just getting into looking now.

I've been toying with the idea of building a bike for a while, kind of a Rat Bike, but a decent one. I have the plans for a chopper frame and have thought of going with that.

The issue has always been the engine. Where to get one, which to get, and cheaper is better. Which brings me here.

I saw a reference and link to the "ChangZuki" bike on a biodiesel website I frequent. Bells went off in my head.

I started searching, found, and talked with a Chinese Manufacturer about diesel engines. My first question is what is needed. What they have is a 2 cylinder v-twin direct injection diesel. 4-stroke, 20 hp, 3600 max rpm, 812 cc displacement, rotation at output is counter-clockwise. Weight: 56kg12) Dimension: 525 x 391 x 459mm

Would this work for motorcycle, specifically for a "cruiser" style? The quoted cost was $690 usd.


I thank you folks for the time and whatever assistance you can provide.

Mr Fixit

[Diesel Dave]

Hi,

The engine you describe is the PUNSUN V2. There appear to be various power ratings for the motor ranging from 20 to 25hp.

I'ts just about perfect for a bike motor, Beckerdorf are curently developing the installation in to a Bullet chassis in Germany but won't be ready 'till April.

Fiddler has one being installed in a Harley chassis wth a CVT but it would work really well with one of those aftermarket Harley 6 speeder boxes.

Rumour has it that there are quite a few harley chassis floating about as owners use the motors for custom frame builds.

Now if we could just convince someone to install a turbo in one..........

All the best
Dave

[mr fixit]

Thanks.

Tell me, please, why is it that a stock Harley motor of say 800 cc (roughly) is rated at near 100 horsepower, yet this diesel of 813 cc is rated at 20-25? Yet they both will run a harley?

How well will that 20hp diesel move a cycle?

[Diesel Dave]

Ok well here goes.

Your petrol 800cc Harley, may well produce 100 horses on paper but this will be at max rpm only.

Typically stationary diesel engines make full torque from 2100rpm onwards and these are real world figures.

Typically 10Hp will see you to 60mph in still air on the flat, 22Hp should be good for about 80 - all day long. I have a 7hp motor that regulary sees 50 on the clock although this will be in exceptional circumstances.

More important than the HP figures are the torque values try comparing the Herley motor with the Punsun from 2100 to 3600rpm and I'm betting there will be little difference.

Don't expect any stationary engined bike to set the world on fire with dragway sprints but they will double your mpg (at least) and last longer than the rest of the bike.

Hope this helps
Dave

[gumps10]

Mr Fixit,
Were did you find one of those for that price in the US?
I cant even find one and the last ime I saw them they were about double that.
For that price I might buy 2.....Hmmm... Diesel motorcycle and ATV or maybe even snowmobile....LOL
Anyways.. If you had a link it would be great

[mr fixit]

Actually,
I was "googleing" the engine and found a company website. Between several emails I was quoted that price.

Just today, after asking for clarification, my contact emailed that the price was to west coast. Shipping to Texas would be another 200+ dollars.

Unless I can find another way of shipping, that doesn't seem like such a good deal, at least from the west coast to Texas.

I don't have a website, because all of the conversations were via e-mail. But if you are still interested, I will send you the contact information of the guy I delt with.

Tell me, overall does that sound like a good price?

Mr Fixit

[Byrdman]

The problem with some of these Chinese "clone" engines is going to be parts and service.

You are dealing with someone offshore who's shipping container loads of non-EPA compliant engnes into the States.

Regardless of price, for me, the risks seem pretty high.

IMO

[Rick]

I agree with the poster that asked for a link! Cheapest I've found the Punsun V2 was around 1800 bucks. For 695? I'd buy it in a HEARTBEAT!
I've got the bike already to put it in. Only has a 6hp in it now, but I made the chassis big enough to accomodate about anything.

[roverthetop]

when i have dealt with punsun on their v-twin (and i have 2 now) the quoted price was $680 each usd FOB nantong. $680 us dollars at their factory in nantong, china. luckily i've a mate in shanghai who picked them up, and shipped them to the west coast for me. ($500 usd). then you need to deal with customs, ($, and paperwork, and hassle) as these are NOT EPA approved. should anyone have questions i might be able to help with, having done it, please pm me.
rover

[roverthetop]

i did forget to mention that there are 2 models that are very similar, but one is rated 3000 rpm and the other 3600 rpm. they are simple, easy, cheap, and as far as i've seen to this point, reliable. i paid $toooooo much for a 19 hp lombardini that was extremely tall. the v sits in the frame so much better, and my new bike design uses the engine as part of the frame, eliminating the top bar all together (much like my tractor). utilizing "fatbob" style custom twin tanks for biodiesel and svo. (custom order). havent decided whether to use cvt or gearbox yet, so awaiting a decision before i complete the build.

[andrewaust]

Welcome to the forum Mr Fixit


If the V-twins are just as realiable as the clone 406cc engines, id give one a go, especially at that price. If the budget permitted I'd think about purchasing two - I have done just that with my 406cc single, purchasing 2 engines at a discount price. Looking at what you have been quoted, it's not much more than what I was quoted in USD for my single

I'm not sure, but would guess a lot of parts may interchange with the Yanmar L100 single in the case of piston rings, piston, rocker gear etc, if so parts would be available from your Yanmar dealer.

The crank is one piece that wouldn't be easy to get I guess, but if you look after the engine a crank should last for years anyway.

The ones who have run this engine seem happy enough, and up until now I have not heard of any major faults.

Just look out when ordering, as one engine is a horizontal shaft, the other a vertical. As previously mentioned, RPM and power can be slightly different - but would guess its the same engine with different settings.



Cheers


Andrew

[mr fixit]

Folks, I'm sorry it has taken so long to get back here. No excuse, other than life getting in the way.

From my emails and contact with the company:


You have received a quotation or response from orienttrading through EC Plaza.
Subject
RE: V twin Diesel motor with minimum of 20 horsepower
From orienttrading
mgs power company, China
Phone: 86-0513-8812-6185, Fax: 86-0513-8812-6183
Email : mgs@mgspower.com
Homepage : http://dieseltrading.en.ecplaza.net
Date Nov 28, 2007 12:58:45 GMT
Message Dear Scott,

Thanks for your attention on us .

The price is USD690, and sample cost is USD690.

Pls visit our website www.mgspower.com.here is a motorcycle which is install our diesel engine.

Free to contact with me if you meet any questions.

best regards,

Roger
Optional Information Minimum Order Quantity: 2
Payment Terms: T/T
Sample Availability / Cost: Charge / 690 USD
Packing Details: cartons
Inspection Certifcate:
Country of Origin:
Delivery Lead Time: 7days
Product Description Spec:
Source Catalog



When I aksed about shipping costs i got this:

Dear Fixit,

Thanks for your reply so fast .

The sea port near Dallas is Long Beach,and you have to find a agent to help you clear the engine from sea port . So i suggest that you choose delivery the engine by express ,such as DHL ,they will send the engine to your home

The sea cost is USD290 for two engines ,and the air cost is USD750 per engine

best regards,



Roger



Tel:0086-513-88126185
Fax:0086-513-88126183
Mobile: 0086-13962992424
E-mail:rui@mgspower.com
M S N : mgsrui@hotmail.com
Skype: mgsrui
Website: www.mgspower.com
Add: No12,Hedong Road (N), ,Nantong City,Jiangsu Province,P.R.China

Finally, a couple of photos of the engine:
http://dieseltrading.en.ecplaza.net/2.asp

http://www.mgspower.com/eProduct.asp?cl ... =5HP--20HP

I hope this helps folks.

I would love to get one of these to start a build around, but at Christmas time with 3 kids, it just aint gonna happen. Maybe in a few months.


Mr Fixit

[Darren]

The diesel bike on their website is on this page

http://www.mgspower.com/eshowProDetail.asp?ProID=1528

[TimppaX]

http://www.mgspower.com/eshowProDetail.asp?ProID=1528

[gilburton]

there are a lot of ways to measure horsepower(see wikipedia) Most vehicles use brake horse power(BHP)to international standards.This is usually measured after the transmission or at the wheels.Horsepower(HP) is a unit of measurement based on what a horse could pull and subsequently applied to early cars eg in the UK it was used for tax purposes so you used to get 8/10 hp etc. depending on the taxation class of the vehicle(this is now done by engine size(CC) HP should not be confused with BHP,as a rough comparison the 8/10 HP in an early car would probably be around 40 BHP.I don't know what standard applies to industrial engines but I suspect it is HP as against BHP? No doubt someone will find out in due course but this is why the figures don't appear to add up.

[Ih8Suvs]

Thanks.

Tell me, please, why is it that a stock Harley motor of say 800 cc (roughly) is rated at near 100 horsepower, yet this diesel of 813 cc is rated at 20-25? Yet they both will run a harley?

How well will that 20hp diesel move a cycle?

Well first off the big twin Harley motors 1300 plus cc don't produce anywhere near 100 horsepower without extensive modification. The only 100 hp class machine they make outside of the new Rotax engined Buell, is the Vrod. Modified, you can get some serious hp out of them though. The last small engine, the 888 sportster, is I *think* 56 hp. They are usually not very forthcoming with horsepower ratings as they are embarrassing compared to European and Japanese bikes. Ask a HD dealer what the horsepower of a new model is and they instantly go into this trained speech about torque.

Vehicle horsepower ratings are different than industrial ratings. Usually vehicle ratings are without any accessory system load, and instantaneous only. The engine would have the life expectancy of a fruit fly if you tried to use that max rated horsepower continuously.

Industrial ratings are for continuous duty driving all accessories and cooling system. If an industrial engine has a rating of say 20 hp, you can use that 20hp continuously until you are too old to care anymore.

That said, a 20hp industrial motor in a motorcycle as heavy as a Hardley Abelson wont exactly provide neck snapping performance. Course the words performance and Harley are rarely used in the same sentence without the modifier poor in there somewhere anyway.

All ribbing about HD aside, they do have some bikes that provide interesting diesel conversion opportunities.

Tim