Market for 100bhp diesel cruiser?

[dustom_99]

What are the market possibilities in europe if we come up with a rocket3 like sports cruiser / tourer with similar dimentions, slightly lesser weight , euro 4 emissions ,about 28kmpl within 15-18k USD.
Engine and gearbox would be from hyundai. 1.4l 90ps /220nm or 1.6l 130ps/270nm.any other inline 4 or inline 3 can also be used but it seems only hyundai/kia are willing to sell there engines. Optional auto or manual 6 speed gearbox.
Just a thought ! I am still looking for investors , hard to find in current state of economy.any suggestions are welcome.

[gilburton]

Personally I think at that price there is no chance.
Around 5/6K would be more like it. After all you can buy small cars for around 6/7kin the UK.
Most of us are motivated by building it yourself and/or the amazing economy the only downside being lack of performance in the single cylinder types.
You have to remember most of the world and Europe is in a recession. I would think a smaller/cheaper bike would be the way to go with cheapness in running costs and price the prime target.
Possibly something a bit bigger than the Enfield type able to hold 70mph with good economy.
If an engine could be sourced that is not a modified industrial engine and is a bit more flexible you would be getting there.
If the Japanese(or Chinese) ever decide to look at diesels I'm sure a suitable range of bikes would soon be on the road.

[Stuart]

Probably best to produce a kit so the ppl could buy that to convert their Rocket 3's. That way guys could try to source or repair an older bike themselves (they hold their value well) as well as getting an engine secondhand.
Given the great torque these new engines deliver I personally would detune it for better mpg. Who wants to cruise at 140mph?
If every aspect of the build were covered with a kit of plates, parts, electronics etc I think it would sell.
The Hyundai Boxer engine has been talked about on this forum but too big with all it's add on parts? Hmm..

[zarquon]

Probably best to produce a kit so the ppl could buy that to convert their Rocket 3's.

Have you ever seen a Rocket rider on our rallys having an interest in diesel bikes?
I haven't.
The target group mostly uses and likes simple machines. I've seen riders of MZ, SR 500 or just the bullet coming back with a diesel bike. Just normal people, not the Dentists and Lawyers riding a Rocket around the hood to feel like a biker.

This does not mean that I no longer like the big dieselmotorcycles. Anybody knows I fell in love with Stephanes Dieselross, when he first appears back in 2006.
Here is the bike in 2007:

[silver fox]

Personally I think at that price there is no chance.
Around 5/6K would be more like it. After all you can buy small cars for around 6/7kin the UK.
Most of us are motivated by building it yourself and/or the amazing economy the only downside being lack of performance in the single cylinder types.
You have to remember most of the world and Europe is in a recession. I would think a smaller/cheaper bike would be the way to go with cheapness in running costs and price the prime target.
Possibly something a bit bigger than the Enfield type able to hold 70mph with good economy.
If an engine could be sourced that is not a modified industrial engine and is a bit more flexible you would be getting there.
If the Japanese(or Chinese) ever decide to look at diesels I'm sure a suitable range of bikes would soon be on the road.

I agree. It only a matter of time before rising fuel costs cause the big companies to produce a diesel bike. Look at Honda and the NCX700. Public demand for cheap commuter bikes will eventually put diesels on the road

[gilburton]

As you are in India you may have access to some small car engines?? Does the Tata Nano have a diesel option?
I don't know the Indian market but I've felt for a long time we are heading for a reverse situation where due to rising fuel and other costs the western economies are shrinking and we'll again be looking at cheapness rather than luxury.
After the war people aspired to bikes then bubble cars etc until the mini came along. Then as time and work/money allowed better vehicles were bought and bikes mainly became a hobby rather than basic transport.
We have gone past the growth and, with environmental considerations, I believe we will go back to that situation.
India and other nations are still on the upwards growth path.
Instead of focusing on luxury basic is the way to go.
I know the Nano has had problems but I think with a few design changes the basic concept would have a market in Europe and elsewhere especially at the ridiculously low price but Tata don't seem interested.
You could re engineer the Diesel Enfield and get it into production again but I suspect in India it is seen as old fashioned??
Sorry to be a bit pessimistic but at the price you are thinking of a lot of luxury bikes could fill the gap better.
I appreciate the work you have put in to your bike and others such as Track but unless you can get a manufacturer interested and cover all the costs in development and local laws AND sell at an economic price then I'm afraid it is a non starter.

[dustom_99]

As you are in India you may have access to some small car engines?? Does the Tata Nano have a diesel option?
I don't know the Indian market but I've felt for a long time we are heading for a reverse situation where due to rising fuel and other costs the western economies are shrinking and we'll again be looking at cheapness rather than luxury.
After the war people aspired to bikes then bubble cars etc until the mini came along. Then as time and work/money allowed better vehicles were bought and bikes mainly became a hobby rather than basic transport.
We have gone past the growth and, with environmental considerations, I believe we will go back to that situation.
India and other nations are still on the upwards growth path.
Instead of focusing on luxury basic is the way to go.
I know the Nano has had problems but I think with a few design changes the basic concept would have a market in Europe and elsewhere especially at the ridiculously low price but Tata don't seem interested.
You could re engineer the Diesel Enfield and get it into production again but I suspect in India it is seen as old fashioned??
Sorry to be a bit pessimistic but at the price you are thinking of a lot of luxury bikes could fill the gap better.
I appreciate the work you have put in to your bike and others such as Track but unless you can get a manufacturer interested and cover all the costs in development and local laws AND sell at an economic price then I'm afraid it is a non starter.

There are a lot of small car motors in india, generally 800cc 3 pot ones and above. ofcourse Nano with 600smething aswell. But all of them are petrol. Nano does not have a diesel heart yet. Its heard that Hyundai is coming out with a 1.1l (65+bhp/150nm)claimed 37km/l in small car application.
Also Nano might seem to be ridiculously low priced , but given its pathetic performance on road it is not so cheap in real run.
Decent diesel motors of automotive application are quite expensive,Hyundai is asking for 4200$ for motor alone(Although at 130bhp it might be cheapest $/bhp euro 5 motor in world) + 1500odd for tranny. import duties and what not. and all the cycle parts are not cheap either.

in this forum and few others, what i saw was that there are people who want automotive engines on there bikes, they generally stumble upon the question of how to send that power and torque to the wheel with safety and reliability.Thats what i have tried to answer, Now it does not matter what automotive engine you use it will always have a oem gearbox to match.
Anyway It s just a thought , i will keep moving an see if i can comeup with a machine to compete in land speed racing.
Thanks everyone

[dustom_99]

Probably best to produce a kit so the ppl could buy that to convert their Rocket 3's. That way guys could try to source or repair an older bike themselves (they hold their value well) as well as getting an engine secondhand.
Given the great torque these new engines deliver I personally would detune it for better mpg. Who wants to cruise at 140mph?
If every aspect of the build were covered with a kit of plates, parts, electronics etc I think it would sell.
The Hyundai Boxer engine has been talked about on this forum but too big with all it's add on parts? Hmm..

It would not be possible to come up with a kit to convert rocket3 or some other motorcycle to diesel for me. largely because of the frame concept i have used, Frame itself works like an anti roll bar and keeps the vibs to minimum (eliminates all horizontal vibrations).
If Big diesel bikes ever gets sold in near future, it would be because of big torque at low rpms. My bike despite being all mild steel construction and a very old half burnt clutch plate pulls out 0-100kph time of 5.xx seconds when launched in 3 gear. it wouldnt surprise me if someone comes out with a sub 3 second time with a mordern diesel in a motorbike,I have myself done it in 3.8 secs launching in 2nd when the clutch was good.
Stu i dont know why are you calling it a boxer?? lot of addon parts can be removd like AC compressor/ hydraulic pump/ alt / vac pump.i did not remove them yet .
without removing anything it weighs around 155kg, removing some parts and machined flywheel + some more titbits can bring weight down by 15-20kg i hope.
also now that the gearbox runs without a differential (diff gear+ mounting basket+ spiders+ bearings ect) gearbox is light. overall bike is not that heavy, with all pollution control measures catcon,egr dpf etc and proper muffler it sill is below 350, without these and in land speed race trim it comes down to 307kg.

I aint much of a fabricator, nor do i have mostof the mordern machines of metal working, if and when need arise i would probably hire prope metal working guys, loads of them available in india for as little as 2$ a day.
In india a few well known companies are already working on diesel motorcycles, amongst them HeroHonda( now known as Heromotto) is working on single 400cc(approx), so is TVS and may be even Royal enfield. i used to work for Herohonda uptill last year, now working for a well known passenger car manufacturer

[Stuart]

Be sure to post anything you hear about the Hero Moto or TVS bikes here on the forum

I only mentioned the Boxer as another Hyundai engine some have considered here - sorry, I'm shooting of at a tangent on hearing Hyundai

[coachgeo]

There are a lot of small car motors in india, generally 800cc 3 pot ones and above. ofcourse Nano with 600smething aswell. But all of them are petrol. ...

Decent diesel motors of automotive application are quite expensive,Hyundai is asking for 4200$ for motor alone(Although at 130bhp it might be cheapest $/bhp euro 5 motor in worwld) + 1500odd for tranny. import duties and what not. and all the cycle parts are not cheap either. ...

not knowing what curancy your using..... it sounds no different than anywhere else. Here in the US a 3cyl diesel new starts around 5,000 USD and it is industrial design. Only small automotive US diesels are VW and 1.9liter is too large CC and physical size for an average man's bike.