In the planning stages of a build.
I need a motor that will have a crusing speed of 60MPH.
Could I get that out of one of the single cyl. 10HP diesel motors with the comet clutches?
If not what would be better.
Need Motor Advice
Moderators: Dan J, Diesel Dave, Crazymanneil, Stuart
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ShovelHead Fred
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Diesel Dave
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Motor Choice
A 10 HP will get you to these speeds but not in all conditions (hills especially).
Ideally I would choose 12 Hp upwards if you want to be assured of this as a cruising speed.
It's difficult to get single cylinder motors of this output without them being heavy, all eyes are awaiting the arrival of the Hatz IB50 that has been promised for so long.
Regards
Dave
Ideally I would choose 12 Hp upwards if you want to be assured of this as a cruising speed.
It's difficult to get single cylinder motors of this output without them being heavy, all eyes are awaiting the arrival of the Hatz IB50 that has been promised for so long.
Regards
Dave
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Fiddler
Another alternative would be a Punsen V-twin. They are basically two 10hp singles on a common crank with slightly larger sump and starter to cope. They put out between 16 and 20hp depending if they rev to 3k or 3.6. They dont weigh significantly more than single either.
I think they are a relatively new engine so are not common as yet. Although a few people in the UK have sourced ex-test units so it may be worth a search.
I think they are a relatively new engine so are not common as yet. Although a few people in the UK have sourced ex-test units so it may be worth a search.
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ShovelHead Fred
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Punnun
is this the punsun...
http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/85623.htm
http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/85623.htm
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balboa_71
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punsun
You can find them on eBay from time to time....but one has to be careful not to bid on the vertical crank model 
Seems the horizontal crank engine is a sell out 
Do these engine employ a balance shaft like the singles have?
Cris
Seems the horizontal crank engine is a sell out Do these engine employ a balance shaft like the singles have?Cris
1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
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Fiddler
Looks like it to me although it seems they might have upgraded the power output slightly as they now quote 22hp.
Unsure if it has a balance shaft or not. Cant find any technical information for it online. If anyone has found some please post link. Having seen it running I would describe it as very viby at idle. Probably worse than the singles we use at work. Smoothing out as revs rise to probably better balanced at operating speeds.
Unsure if it has a balance shaft or not. Cant find any technical information for it online. If anyone has found some please post link. Having seen it running I would describe it as very viby at idle. Probably worse than the singles we use at work. Smoothing out as revs rise to probably better balanced at operating speeds.
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balboa_71
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bad vibes
Hey guy,
Please let the rest of us know how you use your diesel engines as many of use are trying to get some info on how well they hold up to various duties, thanks!!! As for the "V twin" only one member here has one and has not made that sort of info availble to general members
Many of us are deep into clone power..... help us out
Cris
Please let the rest of us know how you use your diesel engines as many of use are trying to get some info on how well they hold up to various duties, thanks!!! As for the "V twin" only one member here has one and has not made that sort of info availble to general members
Many of us are deep into clone power..... help us out
Cris
1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
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LocomotiveBreath
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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Diesel engine wanted
Keep your eye on eBay, in the last month I've picked up 2 (two) brand new L100 Yanmar 418cc (made in Italy) powered generators for $450 ea. (sold one to a good friend at a steal price of a grand), and I just picked up a new 954cc 23hp @ 3600 Ruggerini at a very good price.
There are good deals out there, just keep your eyes open.
Dave
Note, the Italian Yanmar is very quiet, I had a 6hp china generator and it made a racket. I'm very impressed with the newer Yanmars.
There are good deals out there, just keep your eyes open.
Dave
Note, the Italian Yanmar is very quiet, I had a 6hp china generator and it made a racket. I'm very impressed with the newer Yanmars.
“Face piles and piles of trials with smiles. It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave, and keep on thinking free. "Moody Blues"
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Fiddler
Hi Balboa,
I work for a navigation authority in the UK who use diesels for pumping,generators etc as well as powering patrol boats,tugs etc, mainly Kubota stuff.
I came across the Punsen when looking for an engine for my project. Like Shovelhead I wanted to be able to cruise at a steady 60mph and thought it fitted the bill. Found one at a dealer who had a few he had been testing before importing them. He was satisfied they were fine so I took the plunge. Supplied the details to 007 on the yahoo site and believe he managed to get one too.
As far as info for it is concerned I havnt managed to find any except what the dealer told me. Although be careful when buying as when I got home I realised the ID plate states 16hp,3000rpm max, so I figure there are a couple of different models for different applications. I'm hoping this wont be a problem with the set up I'm using.
If people are interested I'm very happy to take measurements or answer any questions as best I can. Still a long way from a finished bike but will let you know how it performs.
I work for a navigation authority in the UK who use diesels for pumping,generators etc as well as powering patrol boats,tugs etc, mainly Kubota stuff.
I came across the Punsen when looking for an engine for my project. Like Shovelhead I wanted to be able to cruise at a steady 60mph and thought it fitted the bill. Found one at a dealer who had a few he had been testing before importing them. He was satisfied they were fine so I took the plunge. Supplied the details to 007 on the yahoo site and believe he managed to get one too.
As far as info for it is concerned I havnt managed to find any except what the dealer told me. Although be careful when buying as when I got home I realised the ID plate states 16hp,3000rpm max, so I figure there are a couple of different models for different applications. I'm hoping this wont be a problem with the set up I'm using.
If people are interested I'm very happy to take measurements or answer any questions as best I can. Still a long way from a finished bike but will let you know how it performs.
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balboa_71
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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16 hp V twin
Fiddler,
Even at 16 hp, you'll have good torque. 10hp will pull a light rider and bike at 60 mph (see Crazyjerrys, Changzuki ). An extra 6 hp will put you over the top. My 10hp conversion pulls hills well at 45 mph and combined weight of bike and rider is close to 700 lbs.
Cris
Even at 16 hp, you'll have good torque. 10hp will pull a light rider and bike at 60 mph (see Crazyjerrys, Changzuki ). An extra 6 hp will put you over the top. My 10hp conversion pulls hills well at 45 mph and combined weight of bike and rider is close to 700 lbs.
Cris
1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
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ShovelHead Fred
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Some Intel on the Punsun 20hp V-Twin
Here's a snip from the email they sent...
Although these engines are not EPA certified yet, the factory is expecting to receive the EPA certification around the spring of 2007.
The engine is available in 18 - 20 hp and 20 - 22 hp. Both engine models are available with vertical or horizontal shaft configurations. The standard shaft is one inch in diameter straight with a key. It can be supplied with tapered or threaded shaft.
All Punsun engines come standard with electric start (with all components installed including the battery cable), muffler, oil cooler and low pressure oil sensor. However, the engine does not come with a battery. For cold weather operation, Punsun offers a glow plug heater option.
Looks like it may be a option.
Here's the photos..
Although these engines are not EPA certified yet, the factory is expecting to receive the EPA certification around the spring of 2007.
The engine is available in 18 - 20 hp and 20 - 22 hp. Both engine models are available with vertical or horizontal shaft configurations. The standard shaft is one inch in diameter straight with a key. It can be supplied with tapered or threaded shaft.
All Punsun engines come standard with electric start (with all components installed including the battery cable), muffler, oil cooler and low pressure oil sensor. However, the engine does not come with a battery. For cold weather operation, Punsun offers a glow plug heater option.
Looks like it may be a option.
Here's the photos..
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Fiddler
Thanks for clarifying that Shovelhead. Did you email the manufacturer or a supplier? Could you supply the contact details as they may be useful in future?
Another thought for you regarding engines could be to convert a marine outboard engine. I have been enviously eyeing up the diesel outboards on our small work barges.
As best as i can tell the pro's are, compact size, hp to suit your needs, high enough revving for the application and often multicylindered if this is important to you.The downside is that they are usually raw water cooled. Ie they draw water from the river/sea, pump it around and then spit it out. I figure it would be possible to design a small closed loop cooling system for it with adequate cooling for a moving bike. Possibly combining heat exchange for veg oil running.
There may be pitfalls that I havnt considered but its an idea for you anyway.
Another thought for you regarding engines could be to convert a marine outboard engine. I have been enviously eyeing up the diesel outboards on our small work barges.
As best as i can tell the pro's are, compact size, hp to suit your needs, high enough revving for the application and often multicylindered if this is important to you.The downside is that they are usually raw water cooled. Ie they draw water from the river/sea, pump it around and then spit it out. I figure it would be possible to design a small closed loop cooling system for it with adequate cooling for a moving bike. Possibly combining heat exchange for veg oil running.
There may be pitfalls that I havnt considered but its an idea for you anyway.
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ShovelHead Fred
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More on the Punsun 20hp V-twin
Here's the next reply from the supplier.....
Runs at 3600 rpm.
Weighs in at approximately 185 pounds.
Your cost for a single engine is $1295.00 delivered to your door steps any where in the lower 48 states!! The following items are optional:
Heating glow plug is an additional $35.00
Fuel tank is an additional $45.00
Runs at 3600 rpm.
Weighs in at approximately 185 pounds.
Your cost for a single engine is $1295.00 delivered to your door steps any where in the lower 48 states!! The following items are optional:
Heating glow plug is an additional $35.00
Fuel tank is an additional $45.00
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andrewaust
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Hi Guy's
It would be nice to slot one of these V twin engines inline behind something like a BMW box - Because of balancing shafts, I don't think they would have a tendency to pull you over when stationary etc.
If they’re anything like my china Yanmar clone - its proving to be bullet proof.
Can't see any of these engines coming down under yet, but would like to put one away for a rainy day
It will be interesting to see how some of you guy's mount something like this V twin up - any idea's
Cheers
Andrew
It would be nice to slot one of these V twin engines inline behind something like a BMW box - Because of balancing shafts, I don't think they would have a tendency to pull you over when stationary etc.
If they’re anything like my china Yanmar clone - its proving to be bullet proof.
Can't see any of these engines coming down under yet, but would like to put one away for a rainy day
It will be interesting to see how some of you guy's mount something like this V twin up - any idea's
Cheers
Andrew
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Diesel Dave
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Punsin V2's
Lots of talk about the Punsun V2 - I picked up mine yesterday, has 100 hours on it so it's nicely run in.
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There is no way I could fit this into an Enfield Bullet chassis it's way to big.
Nice to see it has a proper oil filter and even an oil cooler that the fan draws through.
I've sold this on to Gaz who was built quite a few custom style diesels in the UK and put some ideas in his head, he seems keen on using a Reliant gearbox and but he also has a Ford CVT auto box that could possibly be made to fit. As this is a transverse box, welding up the planet gears provides a drive exiting from low down on the RH side. As the reduction is already completed the rear wheel bevel box needs to be 1:1 ratio.
Regards
Dave
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There is no way I could fit this into an Enfield Bullet chassis it's way to big.
Nice to see it has a proper oil filter and even an oil cooler that the fan draws through.
I've sold this on to Gaz who was built quite a few custom style diesels in the UK and put some ideas in his head, he seems keen on using a Reliant gearbox and but he also has a Ford CVT auto box that could possibly be made to fit. As this is a transverse box, welding up the planet gears provides a drive exiting from low down on the RH side. As the reduction is already completed the rear wheel bevel box needs to be 1:1 ratio.
Regards
Dave
bugger, that is exactly what i was planning to do.There is no way I could fit this into an Enfield Bullet chassis it's way to big.
i've got the enfield chassis waiting, and was actually in the process of ordering a Punsun V2 in germany.
even stretching the frame a couple of inches is not enough to fit it to a enfield chassis?
sounds like a change of plans is needed , now where can i find a ruggerini twin... they have been out of production for a couple of years..
cheers,
Hubert
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Diesel Dave
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Punsun into Enfield
As they say 'anythings possible'.
If you are willing to streach the frame then you could defo do this.
As the Enfield is an open frame you only need to cut through the top tube and extend this bit.
You will need to make up some lower rails anyway to mount the motor onto but the rear section that fits the gearbox should be fine - there was an alloy strenghening plate used on the Interceptors to beef up the frame at this point that may be useful.
Be aware that the Punsun is a big motor and heavy compared to even the biggest Enfield motor (Mk2 Interceptor), so be prepared to add extra strenghtening especially around the headstock area. - neck tubes are now popular on custom frames for good reason.
On a cautionary note - I doubt that the Enfield gearbox would survive the engine power - especially if you use the extended input shaft made for the diesel versions.
A stronger option would be to use a transverse car gearbox with the planet gears welded up - this just leaves the small problem of a 1:1 ratio final bevel box.
Hope this helps
Dave
If you are willing to streach the frame then you could defo do this.
As the Enfield is an open frame you only need to cut through the top tube and extend this bit.
You will need to make up some lower rails anyway to mount the motor onto but the rear section that fits the gearbox should be fine - there was an alloy strenghening plate used on the Interceptors to beef up the frame at this point that may be useful.
Be aware that the Punsun is a big motor and heavy compared to even the biggest Enfield motor (Mk2 Interceptor), so be prepared to add extra strenghtening especially around the headstock area. - neck tubes are now popular on custom frames for good reason.
On a cautionary note - I doubt that the Enfield gearbox would survive the engine power - especially if you use the extended input shaft made for the diesel versions.
A stronger option would be to use a transverse car gearbox with the planet gears welded up - this just leaves the small problem of a 1:1 ratio final bevel box.
Hope this helps
Dave
I did some research into using a 23 hp V-twin Briggs & Stratton gas engine with a BMW gearbox in an Isetta. The problem with the B&S and the similar Punsen is that everything is sort of backwards. The BMW gearbox uses a dry clutch and requires either a 9 inch flywheel (early) or BMW clutch basket (late). You also need to fabricate a bellhousing. Obviously you can't attach the BMW clutch to a flywheel with cooling fins. If you make a flywheel and attach it to the PTO end of the crankshaft, you end up with two flywheels, one on each end of the crank - not good for obvious reasons. Also, another consideration is the weight of the BMW clutch assembly (minimum 9 lbs) plus the weight of a flywheel or clutch basket, on the crankshaft bearing (I found it was borderline). Ensure the bearing is capable of handling the weight. Finally, there is the diameter of the Punsen crankshaft and the method of attaching the flywheel or clutch basket to the crank. The standard bolt and key is inadequate for use with the BMW setup.I gave up and sold the car. 
Lastly, if you can work through the above details, when determining if the engine will fit in a BMW motorcycle frame, ensure the engine will sit between the frame rails low enough and far enough to the right so the gearbox output shaft lines up with the driveshaft (A BMW engine sits to the right in the frame, it isn't centered). I ran into this problem when fabricating the frame for my diesel project.
Hope this helps preventing a costly mistake.
Avery
Lastly, if you can work through the above details, when determining if the engine will fit in a BMW motorcycle frame, ensure the engine will sit between the frame rails low enough and far enough to the right so the gearbox output shaft lines up with the driveshaft (A BMW engine sits to the right in the frame, it isn't centered). I ran into this problem when fabricating the frame for my diesel project.
Hope this helps preventing a costly mistake.
Avery
Hi dave,
i dont worry too much about the enfield box, they used the same design on the 60 HP interceptor (but to be honest it is a weak part on any interceptor)
you can gear up the gearbox with a bigger engine sprocket, wich should help reducing the torque load.
i have a couple of enfield bullets, and so far the gearbox on those has been amazingly reliable..
the easiest option would be a 400 cc hatz conversion for my enfield, i actually bought a engine.
but after a test drive on a sommer enfield i decided they are just too slow for me. and sold the engine again.
i do a 150 mile commute every day, wich is boring enough as it is,
having a bike that struggles to do 65 mph is no fun if you are actually going somewhere.
If i want a 75 mph cruising speed there are not that many options left that might fit a enfield chassis
probably just the hatz 1000 cc twin
the ruggerini twin and the punsun.
any other engines i am not aware of?
the hatz is probably too big, that is how ended up looking at the punsun..
back to keeping a eye on ebay, in the meantime I'll keep using the guzzi for commuting..
cheers,
Hubert
ps , dont bother putting a diesel engine on a guzzi , the gearing means you would end up with a top speed of 60 mph flat out..... (3600rpm/65 mph) unless you fit a really huge rear wheel.......
i dont worry too much about the enfield box, they used the same design on the 60 HP interceptor (but to be honest it is a weak part on any interceptor)
you can gear up the gearbox with a bigger engine sprocket, wich should help reducing the torque load.
i have a couple of enfield bullets, and so far the gearbox on those has been amazingly reliable..
the easiest option would be a 400 cc hatz conversion for my enfield, i actually bought a engine.
but after a test drive on a sommer enfield i decided they are just too slow for me. and sold the engine again.
i do a 150 mile commute every day, wich is boring enough as it is,
having a bike that struggles to do 65 mph is no fun if you are actually going somewhere.
If i want a 75 mph cruising speed there are not that many options left that might fit a enfield chassis
probably just the hatz 1000 cc twin
the ruggerini twin and the punsun.
any other engines i am not aware of?
the hatz is probably too big, that is how ended up looking at the punsun..
back to keeping a eye on ebay, in the meantime I'll keep using the guzzi for commuting..
cheers,
Hubert
ps , dont bother putting a diesel engine on a guzzi , the gearing means you would end up with a top speed of 60 mph flat out..... (3600rpm/65 mph) unless you fit a really huge rear wheel.......