Why is kerosene not used as automotive fuel though its diesel's brother
Outboard marine engines, small aircraft engines and the more usual small electric generators & lawn mowers which run on kerosene even on these days. One thing specific & common to these are that they are fairly constant speed engines irrespective of fuel admission method used. Almost all petroleum products are combustible in IC engines, people have run them even on coal gas & wood gas, then why not kero?
Is there something which is not in favor of kerosene's usage as automotive fuel apart from it being slightly lesser power producing in comparison to petrol-diesel, or something which makes it unsuitable for variable speed application, or it makes unacceptable emissions? I googled for almost a couple of months trying to find something specifically informative on this but i wasn't lucky enough. I hope there isn't any which really restricts kerosene. It runs good in diesel engines with some lube mixed & the ignition properties are similar to diesel infact midway of petrol and diesel.
I want to try kerosene as auto fuel atleast in single cylinder motorcycle application. Got some silly plans too but want to know first what you guys got to say on this Any one have links to share on an automotive (not old tractors) kerosene engine.
Is there any reason why Kero shouldn't be an auto fuel?
TIA for all your response, be it bouquets or brick bats., cheers..
The old boy who keeps some equipment back in my turkey barns routinely runs kerosene in his old Ford diesel ambulance/service truck. He reports it doesn't "smoke as much". I suspect the poor old engine's so clapped out it can't properly meter regular diesel. BUT, you don't want to get caught running kero without paying the road use tax. The fine is considerable.
Sorry for the thread hijack mate but this is very interesting, the little Yanmar we have runs on diesel and can also run on cooking / vegatable oil, can it also run on kerosene then ? (I think its exactly the same as parafin ?), I dont mean long term here, more like I'm stuck in the back of beyond and need to get home, what else can you put in the tank ?
Dougy wrote:Sorry for the thread hijack mate but this is very interesting, the little Yanmar we have runs on diesel and can also run on cooking / vegatable oil, can it also run on kerosene then ? (I think its exactly the same as parafin ?), I dont mean long term here, more like I'm stuck in the back of beyond and need to get home, what else can you put in the tank ?
course add biodeisel to your list. As well as Jet fuels. Then Blends of the fuels you mentioned. Things you can blend with are Motor Oil, Transmission Oil. BUT.... to fully use them to prevent coking to what ever degree possible (AKA- full efficient combustion of fuel) you have to make the timing of injection match the burn characteristic of the fuel. No data on that so it would be trial and error.
Jet Fuels wrote:JET FUELS
Aviation turbine fuels are used for powering jet and turbo-prop engined aircraft and are not to be confused with Avgas. Outside former communist areas, there are currently two main grades of turbine fuel in use in civil commercial aviation : Jet A-1 and Jet A, both are kerosene type fuels. There is another grade of jet fuel, Jet B which is a wide cut kerosene (a blend of gasoline and kerosene) but it is rarely used except in very cold climates.
JET A-1
Jet A-1 is a kerosene grade of fuel suitable for most turbine engined aircraft. It is produced to a stringent internationally agreed standard, has a flash point above 38°C (100°F) and a freeze point maximum of -47°C. It is widely available outside the U.S.A. Jet A-1 meets the requirements of British specification DEF STAN 91-91 (Jet A-1), (formerly DERD 2494 (AVTUR)), ASTM specification D1655 (Jet A-1) and IATA Guidance Material (Kerosine Type), NATO Code F-35.
JET A
Jet A is a similar kerosene type of fuel, produced to an ASTM specification and normally only available in the U.S.A. It has the same flash point as Jet A-1 but a higher freeze point maximum (-40°C). It is supplied against the ASTM D1655 (Jet A) specification.
JET B
Jet B is a distillate covering the naphtha and kerosene fractions. It can be used as an alternative to Jet A-1 but because it is more difficult to handle (higher flammability), there is only significant demand in very cold climates where its better cold weather performance is important. In Canada it is supplied against the Canadian Specification CAN/CGSB 3.23
MILITARY
JP-4
JP-4 is the military equivalent of Jet B with the addition of corrosion inhibitor and anti-icing additives; it meets the requirements of the U.S. Military Specification MIL-DTL-5624U Grade JP-4. (As of Jan 5, 2004, JP-4 and 5 meet the same US Military Specification). JP-4 also meets the requirements of the British Specification DEF STAN 91-88 AVTAG/FSII (formerly DERD 2454),where FSII stands for Fuel Systems Icing Inhibitor. NATO Code F-40.
JP-5
JP-5 is a high flash point kerosene meeting the requirements of the U.S. Military Specification MIL-DTL-5624U Grade JP-5 (as of Jan 5, 2004, JP-4 and 5 meet the same US Military Specification). JP-5 also meets the requirements of the British Specification DEF STAN 91-86 AVCAT/FSII (formerly DERD 2452). NATO Code F-44.
JP-8
JP-8 is the military equivalent of Jet A-1 with the addition of corrosion inhibitor and anti-icing additives; it meets the requirements of the U.S. Military Specification MIL-DTL-83133E. JP-8 also meets the requirements of the British Specification DEF STAN 91-87 AVTUR/FSII (formerly DERD 2453). NATO Code F-34.
AVIATION FUEL ADDITIVES
Aviation fuel additives are compounds added to the fuel in very small quantities, usually measurable only in parts per million, to provide special or improved qualities. The quantity to be added and approval for its use in various grades of fuel is strictly controlled by the appropriate specifications.
A few additives in common use are as follows:
1. Anti-knock additives reduce the tendency of gasoline to detonate. Tetra-ethyl lead (TEL) is the only approved anti-knock additive for aviation use and has been used in motor and aviation gasolines since the early 1930s.
2. Anti-oxidants prevent the formation of gum deposits on fuel system components caused by oxidation of the fuel in storage and also inhibit the formation of peroxide compounds in certain jet fuels.
3. Static dissipater additives reduce the hazardous effects of static electricity generated by movement of fuel through modern high flow-rate fuel transfer systems. Static dissipater additives do not reduce the need for `bonding' to ensure electrical continuity between metal components (e.g. aircraft and fuelling equipment) nor do they influence hazards from lightning strikes.
4. Corrosion inhibitors protect ferrous metals in fuel handling systems, such as pipelines and fuel storage tanks, from corrosion. Some corrosion inhibitors also improve the lubricating properties (lubricity) of certain jet fuels.
5. Fuel System Icing Inhibitors (Anti-icing additives) reduce the freezing point of water precipitated from jet fuels due to cooling at high altitudes and prevent the formation of ice crystals which restrict the flow of fuel to the engine. This type of additive does not affect the freezing point of the fuel itself. Anti-icing additives can also provide some protection against microbiological growth in jet fuel.
6. Metal de-activators suppress the catalytic effect which some metals, particularly copper, have on fuel oxidation.
7. Biocide additives are sometimes used to combat microbiological growths in jet fuel, often by direct addition to aircraft tanks; as indicated above some anti-icing additives appear to possess biocidal properties.
8. Thermal Stability Improver additives are sometimes used in military JP-8 fuel, to produce a grade referred to as JP-8+100, to inhibit deposit formation in the high temperature areas of the aircraft fuel system.
POWER BOOSTING FLUIDS
It used to be commonplace for large piston engines to require special fluids to increase their take-off power. Similar injection systems are also incorporated in some turbo-jet and turbo-prop engines. The power increase is achieved by cooling the air consumed, to raise its density and thereby increase the weight of air available for combustion. This effect can be obtained by using water alone but it is usual to inject a mixture of methanol and water to produce a greater degree of evaporative cooling and also to provide additional fuel energy.
For piston engines, methanol/water mixtures are used and these may have 1 percent of a corrosion inhibiting oil added. The injection system may be used to compensate for the power lost when operating under high temperature and/or high altitude conditions (i.e. with low air densities) or to obtain increased take-off power under normal atmospheric conditions, by permitting higher boost pressure for a short period.
Both water alone and methanol/water mixtures are used in gas turbine engines, principally to restore the take-off power (or thrust) lost when operating under low air density conditions. Use of a corrosion inhibitor in power boost fluids supplied for these engines is not permitted.
The methanol and water used must be of very high quality to avoid formation of engine deposits. The water must be either demineralised or distilled and the only adulterant permitted in the methanol is up to 0.5 per cent of pyridine if required by local regulations as a de-naturant. In the past there were several different grades of water/methanol mixtures, e.g. 45/55/0 for turbine engines, 50/50/0 for piston engines (this was also available with 1% corrosion inhibiting oil and was designated 50/50/1) and 60/40/0, however, with decreasing demand Shell now only supplies 45/55/0. The table shows the principal characteristics of Shell demineralised water and of the commonly used methanol/water blend.
Kerosene/Parafin isn't slippery enough to oil most diesel fuel pumps. Only engines that have pumps lubricated by sump oil can handle usage long term. Some old Land Rover engines for instance - and the Altius Scimitar
I agree with what's been said so far - Kerosene is very similar to Paraffin, and from my past experiences, getting wet with it!!! working on jet aircraft, it's a bit thinner (less viscous) than Diesel. You could run the engine on Kerosene, but it would be best to run it at lower revs, and not at full power, as there could possibly be wear in the fuel pump, due to less fuel lubrication properties, and the ignition timing would be possibly different. The fuel injector spray pattern might also be changed a bit, due to the different viscocity, as it's set up for Diesel, and the Kerosene would burn at a slightly different rate, with maybe less power.
Best to blend it wil some Diesel to make the injector and pump happy! Maybe 2 parts of Kerosene to 1 part Diesel? When the engine idles and runs smoothly at higher revs, it might be happy with the blend.
Found this out the hard way! with my latest experimental 1 gallon batch vegetable oil fuel blend, with some Petrol (Gasolene). It affected the injector ignition timing, as the small quantity of Petrol seemed to make the fuel ignite faster, and affected the engine idle speed and the power output at max. revs. Problem solved with a 1 to 1 part mix with Diesel! And got me out of trouble with engine idling and running.
There's nothing like the smell of burnt vegetable oil in the morning!!
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
As far i learn kerosene is closer in properties & characteristics to diesel but still didnt find
any takers post early years 20th century. The early diesel motorcycle developers also did not seem to give kero a chance though they dosed with ether for easy starting even with fuel injected engine, I think kero might have done good in 'Norton diesel' and the like mentioned elsewhere in this site itself
Kero for sure lacks the glamour of other fuels but the onset of Jet fuel nomenclatures might gain it some attention. Now, other than very known facts like slightly lower performance, lack of lubricity & taxation issues, Is there anything technically restricts its use as engine fuel, in a variable speed application?
As far i learn kerosene is closer in properties & characteristics to diesel but still didnt find
any takers post early years 20th century. The early diesel motorcycle developers also did not seem to give kero a chance though they dosed with ether for easy starting even with fuel injected engine, I think kero might have done good in 'Norton diesel' and the like mentioned elsewhere in this site itself
Kero for sure lacks the glamour of other fuels but the onset of Jet fuel nomenclatures might gain it some attention. Now, other than very known facts like slightly lower performance, lack of lubricity & taxation issues, Is there anything technically restricts its use as engine fuel, in a variable speed application?
AppRenticE wrote:As far i learn kerosene is closer in properties & characteristics to diesel but still didnt find
any takers post early years 20th century. The early diesel motorcycle developers also did not seem to give kero a chance though they dosed with ether for easy starting even with fuel injected engine, I think kero might have done good in 'Norton diesel' and the like mentioned elsewhere in this site itself
Kero for sure lacks the glamour of other fuels but the onset of Jet fuel nomenclatures might gain it some attention. Now, other than very known facts like slightly lower performance, lack of lubricity & taxation issues, Is there anything technically restricts its use as engine fuel, in a variable speed application?
Nothing, apart from the fact that over the years, diesel engine injector and pump design have been highly optimised to run on diesel fuel (heavy fuel oil). So the injector timing settings, and possibly the fuel pump would have to be modified, for long term use. It's just one of those unfortunate facts of life. For short term use, you could possibly get away with just running on kerosene. It's all down to experimenting, since the diesel engine manufacturers can't be bothered at the moment; and none of them recommend running their engines on anything else but diesel, and would affect the engine warranty/guarantees - if they are worth anything?!!
There's nothing like the smell of burnt vegetable oil in the morning!!
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
I suspect that the main problem with running kerosene is that it offers no real advantages over diesel. I don't think it would improve mileage, won't provide more power, doesn't lubricate moving parts so it requires additives, may not burn much cleaner overall, isn't cheaper to manufacture and isn't nearly as widely distributed or avilable.
For vehicle use that's one more pump at the filling station, a fairly expensive proposition. If there could possibly be a cost savings which I doubt, it would quickly disappear with various road fuel taxes added.
In other words, no really good reason to use kero instead of diesel.
^ as rightly said kero might not be attractive to diesel motorists or companies for the very same 'commercial' reasons. I'm trying to learn of any 'Technical issues restricting kero as a light CI fuel'
Straight to the point- Kero is a lighter fuel, supposedly burns faster and goes good with compression ignition (though it can also run in low compression spark ignition engines lets not consider it here because of lower output, efficiency & emission related issues etc) Diesel bikers especially thumpers, i hope might benefit from a light & fast burning CI fuel Anyone here ever tried kero in Yanmar or Hatz singles?
I've not tried it in a bike but one ran some through a car engine mixed with 50/50 with diesel. I experienced a what felt like a slight power drop and it kinda felt like I was running on air if you know what I mean. Just a kind of wispy nature to the engine burn - a lightness almost. Not a heavy oil though is it
Stuart wrote: .... it kinda felt like I was running on air if you know what I mean. Just a kind of wispy nature to the engine burn - a lightness almost.
I'm being stupid here but could you pls elaborate? Was the engine rev happy, can i assume it ran less noisy ?? Pl forgive me if i'm taking too much liberty in asking if you can test kero+2t oil mix in the bike for once . Kero packs slightly less energy content but i hope the lightness might compensate it.
AppRenticE wrote:^ as rightly said kero might not be attractive to diesel motorists or companies for the very same 'commercial' reasons. I'm trying to learn of any 'Technical issues restricting kero as a light CI fuel'
Straight to the point- Kero is a lighter fuel, supposedly burns faster and goes good with compression ignition (though it can also run in low compression spark ignition engines lets not consider it here because of lower output, efficiency & emission related issues etc) Diesel bikers especially thumpers, i hope might benefit from a light & fast burning CI fuel Anyone here ever tried kero in Yanmar or Hatz singles?
Just one final thought. The main reason why people don't experiment with Kerosene in single cylinder bike diesel engines, is that it's not readily or easily available in the UK and most probably Europe and the US, so no point in using it. The only main commercial use of Kerosene is in aviation jet fuel. Since I no longer work on aircraft anymore, unfortunately I don't have access to the waste Kerosene fuel storage bowsers that used to be left lying around outside the maintenance hangars for sometime!
I wish I had a diesel engined motorbike back then in the mid 1990's, so I could experiment with it!
Paraffin which is similar, is no longer easily available or economical to use in the UK, since in the late 1970's when it was still widely used as a source of fuel for portable heaters, a large fuel tax was 'slapped' on it by the government of the time, making it uneconomical to use anymore for general use.
Only a very small minority today still use it for heating, (growing plants in greenhouses etc.) and it has it's uses for industrial cleaning.
So that's why loads of people aren't using or experimenting with Kerosene in diesel engines.......
There's nothing like the smell of burnt vegetable oil in the morning!!
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
AppRenticE wrote:I'm being stupid here but could you pls elaborate? Was the engine rev happy, can i assume it ran less noisy ?? Pl forgive me if i'm taking too much liberty in asking if you can test kero+2t oil mix in the bike for once . Kero packs slightly less energy content but i hope the lightness might compensate it.
Come to think of it I think it was rev happy, slightly, but didn't notice any difference in the sound. Too long ago to remember..
old clunker wrote: Nothing, apart from the fact that over the years, diesel engine injector and pump design have been highly optimised to run on diesel fuel (heavy fuel oil). So the injector timing settings, and possibly the fuel pump would have to be modified, for long term use. It's just one of those unfortunate facts of life. ...
Yup, these are some very relevant facts, thank you.
... It's all down to experimenting, since the diesel engine manufacturers can't be bothered at the moment; and none of them recommend running their engines on anything else but diesel, ...
If one is bonkers to go experimenting, what to start with for adapting a diesel engine to perform (not just run) on kero aka jetfuel . I know a Ci engine burns kero as such. But to make use of the lightness & faster burn properties of kero, how shall a Ci engine be tuned? like may be bit lower compression ratio & lighter flywheel to match.
Edit: This seems kind of reverse mod when guys are busy adapting diesels to run bio, veggie & ooh..black diesel !
cheers..
Unfortunately most of us don't have the spare time, and also have many other interests, to have the large amount of time to learn in almost obsessive detail 'The Dark Arts' of combustion engine design, to post degree design level - especially as the vast majority of engines, including diesel ones are designed by a team of people, each one an expert in their individual fields. So any serious engine design and modification work would be ideally done by an experienced and knowledgeable team, with suitable CAD design, workshop and test facilities.
One can dream on though!.......
There's nothing like the smell of burnt vegetable oil in the morning!!
1971 Royal Enfield diesel running on diesel/biofuel.
Back in the early seventies (first fuel crisis, ration coupons issued in the UK) I ran a Kawasaki 250 triple on parafin for a while. Boy, do those 2-strokes smoke:D Any cop catching a whiff of the clouds of white smoke billowing behind me would've locked me up and thrown away the key; hence the 'experiment' was terminated. Power was somewhat reduced but she ran great under under all loads in all gear. I was quite impressed except for the aforementioned attention grabbing exhaust properties.
Any one have links to share on an automotive (not old tractors) kerosene engine. 
cheers..
Anyone here ever tried kero in Yanmar or Hatz singles? 
. Kero packs slightly less energy content but i hope the lightness might compensate it.