longevity

[naron]

I have a question that I haven't found addressed directly in the posts I've researched. The single cylinder diesels being used in the 10hp range seem to be capable of about 50-55mph US when properly geared etc. My question is what is the longevity of the commonly used 10hp diesels when driven almost exclusively at those speeds? I have a very, very long commute every day. I've had 250cc class bikes before and am curious which engine would be relatively trouble free for the longest period of time, the commercially available 250cc motorcycles or the comverted diesel engine motorcycles so many of you own. Most riders would say the 250cc class bikes available in the US would certainly push 100k miles with proper maint. when driven at 50 to 55mph for the life of the engine. What about the diesels?naron
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Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:01 pm
Location: Arkansas
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[coachgeo]

Read closer the conversions. The 10hp diesel bikes if I recall right can NOT average 55mph. Most successfull sustained highway speed bikes (50+mph) are larger HP. 10hp will due Around town or Back roads; if you like to smell the roses along the way.

Longevity... a quality diesel engine beyond 10hp will outlast YOU. That being said a quality diesel new can cost bookooo bucks.

[naron]

Would you include air-cooled diesels in that statement or were you thinking of water-cooled?

[coachgeo]

Would you include air-cooled diesels in that statement or were you thinking of water-cooled?

Water cooled does not come into play till around 20hp. Air cooled Yanmar will possibly outlast you too if geared to keep it in the best spot of power band. Many 10hp bikes "can reach 50-55" slowly..... but to maintain it you'ld have to push the engine beyond its parameters shortening life.

IMHO just go for it using a twin diesel or larger. Do it right the first time.

[alexanderfoti]

I'm hoping to successfully supercharge my 406 to allow it cruise at 60 ish easy hopefully.

[Stuart]

I started on a single but that was too much to the extreme. Good mpg but not enough power - and it wore out (but it may have had bad rings to start with?). I now aim for a better balanced bike - aim at the middle - try your best to match the mpg & mph figures. Less mpg but more power for a comfortable ride on the bigger machines. The Ruggerini twin 850 is good with 120 mpg but the Tiger is king of the road as far as I'm concerned. Awesome beast that gives a truly effortless ride and a 500 mile range on that tank.

[alexanderfoti]

only issue is the tiger with the smart engine cant be run on alternative fuels as easily...

[XLerate]

I've researched the same thing from a USA perspective, same conclusions as above!

10HP would be for an around town grocery getter, low speed urban traffic or piddling around on country lanes. From what I've found a really usable machine will start at 20Hp or so. I'm working on a KZ1000 trike conversion able to haul some weight, so thinking 30+ to 40 HP or so.

Like the guys say, be smart, do it once, do it right the first time and I sure agree!

[alexanderfoti]

Looking at these posts, in the UK we have a learner legal power limit of 15bhp, and a cylinder capacity size of 125cc. These bikes can be ridden on dual carriageways that do 70 mph +. Im sure if we can bring a 406 to around 15bhp it should make the bike more usable!

[XLerate]

The problem over here for touring or city-to-city rides is so many fly along on the freeways at 75-85 mph, including the big semi truck & trailer rigs. That makes it treacherous to ride along at 50-60 mph on a bike or trike. Even in the 'slow lane' truckers running hard can make life miserable & dangerous. Secondary roads may be better & more relaxed, or maybe not.

[alexanderfoti]

The problem over here for touring or city-to-city rides is so many fly along on the freeways at 75-85 mph, including the big semi truck & trailer rigs. That makes it treacherous to ride along at 50-60 mph on a bike or trike. Even in the 'slow lane' truckers running hard can make life miserable & dangerous. Secondary roads may be better & more relaxed, or maybe not.

I see what you mean, at least in the uk all trucks etc are speed limited to 60mph so there isnt such a danger of this, also you can get anywhere with The A roads which tend to be a bit slower.

[nanno]

I (personally) know of people who scratched the 100000km mark on Hatz-powered Enfields built by Jochen Sommer. Although not 100% troublefree, the longevity is out of question.
What has to be said about the Yanmar-clones is, that they drastically vary in overall quality (castings, bearings, general assembly, etc) and can range from somewhere around 10000km to around 30000 to 40000km (that's the biggest distance covered yet, by a person known to me in real life, but the bike is still working). So I guess if you don't get the cheapest clone. On the other hand my Lombardini 325cc has now done around 30000km and is still ticking over nicely, yet the head gasket is leaking a bit, except from that... nothing that I am aware of (and I know both pre-owners personally).

The bigger the engine gets, the less stressed are the single parts, because you don't always have to run the bike full whack.

Cheers,
Greg

[XLerate]

The problem over here for touring or city-to-city rides is so many fly along on the freeways at 75-85 mph, including the big semi truck & trailer rigs. That makes it treacherous to ride along at 50-60 mph on a bike or trike. Even in the 'slow lane' truckers running hard can make life miserable & dangerous. Secondary roads may be better & more relaxed, or maybe not.

I see what you mean, at least in the uk all trucks etc are speed limited to 60mph so there isnt such a danger of this, also you can get anywhere with The A roads which tend to be a bit slower.

Oh, don't we wish! Trucks are speed limited to 55 mph, but it's almost entirely ignored, except when state patrol is out with radar. Truckers use their CB radios to warn each other of the radar traps, so only temporary slow downs, then pedal to the metal again!

RE: Clones; I've heard that a large part of that problem is not exactly that they're clones. It's that an engine may be cloned & sold on world markets, but then another company comes along and instead of again copying an original engine, they copy & clone the clone! As that repeats, the error factors increase.

Much the same with materials. First clone downgrades to save money & sell cheaper, then second clone downgrades from the first clone it copied, to save more money & grab that market share! Law of Diminishing Returns & greed in the marketplace.

Not being intimate with that economy & the players, we have no idea what we're getting, a clone: or a clone of a clone of a clone!

[naron]

The punsun (i think) v-twins look really attractive because of price and i see they've been used by some here. I saw one warning about a failure. Any more experience with those engines? The hp range of those engine look spot on for what you all are saying. The air cooled engines are much more attractive to me that the water.

[naron]

The punsun (i think) v-twins look really attractive because of price and i see they've been used by some here. I saw one warning about a failure. Any more experience with those engines? The hp range of those engine look spot on for what you all are saying. The air cooled engines are much more attractive to me that the water.

Of course, I'm asking about the longevity of the punsun.

[alexanderfoti]

The problem over here for touring or city-to-city rides is so many fly along on the freeways at 75-85 mph, including the big semi truck & trailer rigs. That makes it treacherous to ride along at 50-60 mph on a bike or trike. Even in the 'slow lane' truckers running hard can make life miserable & dangerous. Secondary roads may be better & more relaxed, or maybe not.

I see what you mean, at least in the uk all trucks etc are speed limited to 60mph so there isnt such a danger of this, also you can get anywhere with The A roads which tend to be a bit slower.

Oh, don't we wish! Trucks are speed limited to 55 mph, but it's almost entirely ignored, except when state patrol is out with radar. Truckers use their CB radios to warn each other of the radar traps, so only temporary slow downs, then pedal to the metal again!

I see what you mean, but I believe that the vehicles in the uk are physically speed limited, with tachographs to catch them out.

[Sibbo]

I see what you mean, but I believe that the vehicles in the uk are physically speed limited, with tachographs to catch them out.

Speed limited in OZ too,some cunning tech to use computerized photos of license plates and speed averaging to work out it a truck could actually have done the trip without speeding .

I reckon it's probably saved a few trucker's lives .

110 and 100 km limits . If I could get that on an Enfield 9hp I'd be very happy and very surprised too !

[Sibbo]

Sorry , stuffed up the quotes ..

[XLerate]

Second part of original post:

Most diesel engines were first designed as industrial/commercial powerplants. The governor system of speed control is designed specific to engine, to allow it to run at maximum governed speed for the life of the engine.

Real easy to tweak the pump on some engines [difficult on others] or add go-faster goodies, but overall they tend to shorten life expectancy. Moderate & reasonable tweaks won't do great harm, but seriously increasing maximum governed rpm can shorten life.

That said, in a vehicle application with governed engine speed raised, it doesn't normally run all-out all the time, but only when reaching top speed in gears. So that can reduce the overall strain on the engine. Cruising up against the governor continually, with governed speed also tweaked a lot higher, will result in a shorter engine life.

[coachgeo]

had a recent maybe stupid thought about the punsuns twin cyl engines.

Can you put two back to back and make a 4 cyl? Due to space maybe a cvt mated to a shaft drive would be neccissary..

Makes ya go hmmmmmmm.

[alexanderfoti]

had a recent maybe stupid thought about the punsuns twin cyl engines.

Can you put two back to back and make a 4 cyl? Due to space maybe a cvt mated to a shaft drive would be neccissary..

Makes ya go hmmmmmmm.

I think synchronisation may be a problem, but sounds interesting

[Diesel Dave]

I have a 400cc 6LD400 Lombardini in my Enfield with 148,000 miles under the wheels.

The bore has a shine like a mirror but it doesn't burn any oil. As the filter is just a brass screen I swap the oil every 1000 miles.

Top speeds are difficult to quote as it really depends on wind and incline, as a general rule 50 is about right, but you can hold it full bore all day long.

It's not the engine that wears out but everything else, engine plates in particular, I have also worn out a 5 speed gearbox but the 4 speeder with a close ratio set is much stronger and easier to work on.

[Zem]

Hi Naron,

Is there anybody with more than 60000 km to that kind of engine? I would guess, no.
Maybe the watercooled Kipors are working better but they are still so far untested.

A Water cooling system makes a great advantage to the noise level, which is one of the critical parts for some conversations. You can keep that in mind.

If you want to make it cheap, build in a used Engine from a non chinese manufacturer and hope for the best, that's what I would do.

regards

Hans