Hi,
I've just obtained a free Lombardini LDW 502 water cooled twin. The catch is its been dismantled and the bits are in various boxes that are in more than one barn and I'm yet to collect them but I'm hopeful that I'll find all the important bits to get it running again. It came out of a small car that I cant remember the name off that was driven with a varimatic belt drive, but unfortunately I don't get to have that bit The story about why it was dismantled is that it had a blown gasket, so hopefully that is all that's wrong and there will be no nasty surprises.
My first choice for a doner bike is my Dnepr with complete BMW R80 engine / drive and rear wheel but I'm after some suggestions / experience as to whether or not mounting the engine to the BMW box will give suitable gearing ratios. I've been feeding numbers into spreadsheets and if I've got it right I'll have a theoretical top speed of 63mph at 3600 rpm. What I'm not sure about is how performance / cruising speeds match up with calculated guesstimates.
PS Some of you would have seen me at the first Big Knock where I turned up with a dog and Dnepr outfit.
New Lombardini project
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New Lombardini project
Kubota Z482 which is plodding on with unnerving reliability. Three years so far.
1900 Diesel Bike being rebuilt with better clutch control.
1900 Diesel Bike being rebuilt with better clutch control.
I am (hopefully) a couple months away from finishing my project which uses the same BMW gearing as in your Dnepr. I purchased a 5 percent taller 5th gear for the gearbox from Siebenrock in Germany which should increase calculated top speed to 67 mph @ 3600 rpm. The gear, which has 20 teeth instead of 21, was made by Wolfgang Kayser who apparently retired a year or so ago. He must have made a batch of them as the gear is still listed by several companies including Sibenrock Note that BMW changed the gear angle sometime in late 1981 and you have to verify which gear you have (later gears marked with an X).. In some cases two gears are required.
Kayser also made a 10 percent taller 5th gear set (two gears) good for 70 mph. David Hubbard's BMW R80RT has one (see http://www.dieselbike.net/bmw.htm) I haven't found anyone selling this gearset.
Alan Forbes of Indian motorcycle restoration fame on West Scotland Lane, Edinburgh, Scotland is (was?) building a modern interpretation of the Indian Four based on the Swedish Wiking. The bike used a BMW 5 speed gearbox and BMW rear drive. Kayser initially made a special taller gearset for these bikes. In an email exchange with Alan several years ago he mentioned he was about to make his own gears in house.
Perhaps someone in the UK could follow up on this. I don't know if Alan is still building the bikes but might possibly have some gears that he would sell which would help us greatly.
I am using a Daihatsu D950 which is about double the horsepower of the Lombardini LDW 502. Since I haven't been able to find any posted performance data for a diesel/BMW setup I've spent many hours number crunching and have determined that I can probably run 3.36:1 overall gearing (with a modified 4-speed gearbox) for 55 mph @ 2400, 70 mph @ 3000, a top speed of 80 mph @ 3600 rpm. *However*, consulting the engine's hp/torque graphs and hp vs mph requirements, there would be minimal roll on acceleration; frequent downshifting would likely be necessary. I do intend to eventually try the setup just to satisfy my curiousity. Initially I will be using a stock 5-speed gearbox which should provide very good performance.
For your convenience, here is a simple formula for calculating speed/rpm for BMW and similar bikes:
mph = rpm / (gearbox_ratio*rear_drive_ratio) * tire_circumference / 1056
example:
rpm = 3600
gearbox ratio = 1.5, rear drive ratio = 2.91
400 X 18 tire circumference = 81.68 inches
3600 / (1.5*2.91) * 81.68 / 1056 = 63.79 mph
Hope this helps.
Kayser also made a 10 percent taller 5th gear set (two gears) good for 70 mph. David Hubbard's BMW R80RT has one (see http://www.dieselbike.net/bmw.htm) I haven't found anyone selling this gearset.
Alan Forbes of Indian motorcycle restoration fame on West Scotland Lane, Edinburgh, Scotland is (was?) building a modern interpretation of the Indian Four based on the Swedish Wiking. The bike used a BMW 5 speed gearbox and BMW rear drive. Kayser initially made a special taller gearset for these bikes. In an email exchange with Alan several years ago he mentioned he was about to make his own gears in house.
Perhaps someone in the UK could follow up on this. I don't know if Alan is still building the bikes but might possibly have some gears that he would sell which would help us greatly.
I am using a Daihatsu D950 which is about double the horsepower of the Lombardini LDW 502. Since I haven't been able to find any posted performance data for a diesel/BMW setup I've spent many hours number crunching and have determined that I can probably run 3.36:1 overall gearing (with a modified 4-speed gearbox) for 55 mph @ 2400, 70 mph @ 3000, a top speed of 80 mph @ 3600 rpm. *However*, consulting the engine's hp/torque graphs and hp vs mph requirements, there would be minimal roll on acceleration; frequent downshifting would likely be necessary. I do intend to eventually try the setup just to satisfy my curiousity. Initially I will be using a stock 5-speed gearbox which should provide very good performance.
For your convenience, here is a simple formula for calculating speed/rpm for BMW and similar bikes:
mph = rpm / (gearbox_ratio*rear_drive_ratio) * tire_circumference / 1056
example:
rpm = 3600
gearbox ratio = 1.5, rear drive ratio = 2.91
400 X 18 tire circumference = 81.68 inches
3600 / (1.5*2.91) * 81.68 / 1056 = 63.79 mph
Hope this helps.
Hi Mouse and welcome.
Sorry I cant help with BMW enquires but can give you some thoughts on calculated vs real world speed figures.
I used spreadsheets from the yahoo groups and calculated my top speed to be a theoretical 83mph.
I can confirm that in my setup (20hp), the bike will indeed do this, EVENTUALLY. I had this confirmed by being followed by a car who's calibration I trust better than the bikes.
Realistically I consider my top speed to be 75mph with 70mph being comfortably reached.
Hope that helps, Mark
Sorry I cant help with BMW enquires but can give you some thoughts on calculated vs real world speed figures.
I used spreadsheets from the yahoo groups and calculated my top speed to be a theoretical 83mph.
I can confirm that in my setup (20hp), the bike will indeed do this, EVENTUALLY. I had this confirmed by being followed by a car who's calibration I trust better than the bikes.
Realistically I consider my top speed to be 75mph with 70mph being comfortably reached.
Hope that helps, Mark
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- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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Thanks for the pointers.
Just had a rummage about on the Yahoo forums and found a spread sheet called 'Wind Res + Rolling Res.xls' and I had a fiddle about with it after entering g/kwh etc.....
Looks like that engine will give me a top speed of 50mph and a fuel consumption of 80mpg if you believe the graph. So it looks like the existing gearing of the BMW transmission will be OK because there isn't the power to go faster.
An expected fuel consumption of 80 MPG at 50mph is worse then my SR125, I know the graph says it will be about 100mpg at 40mph and more at slower speeds but to be honest I was expecting a bit more than that at useful cruising speeds But without knowing the economy of other Diesel bikes I don't know if I've got overly high expectations.
Just had a rummage about on the Yahoo forums and found a spread sheet called 'Wind Res + Rolling Res.xls' and I had a fiddle about with it after entering g/kwh etc.....
Looks like that engine will give me a top speed of 50mph and a fuel consumption of 80mpg if you believe the graph. So it looks like the existing gearing of the BMW transmission will be OK because there isn't the power to go faster.
An expected fuel consumption of 80 MPG at 50mph is worse then my SR125, I know the graph says it will be about 100mpg at 40mph and more at slower speeds but to be honest I was expecting a bit more than that at useful cruising speeds But without knowing the economy of other Diesel bikes I don't know if I've got overly high expectations.
Kubota Z482 which is plodding on with unnerving reliability. Three years so far.
1900 Diesel Bike being rebuilt with better clutch control.
1900 Diesel Bike being rebuilt with better clutch control.
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- I luv the smell of Diesel...
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:30 pm
- Location: S Wales
- Contact:
I've go to go find it againchevy43 wrote:Could you please give a link to:'Wind Res + Rolling Res.xls'
Thanks,
Treven
Its in a Yahoo group so you have to join. Its in the files section under A Power vd Speed calc, its an unregulated group so its next to the entry for Hot Biker Dating
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dieselmotorcycles
Kubota Z482 which is plodding on with unnerving reliability. Three years so far.
1900 Diesel Bike being rebuilt with better clutch control.
1900 Diesel Bike being rebuilt with better clutch control.