enfield 13hp diesel

[zoro]

i had posted in the wrong place.at the bottom of the page.. looking for details on the yanmar 456cc/13hp diesel,that is fitted into some royal enfields, how do these engines stand up to every day riding & any problems, due to daily running. what kind of life span would these motors have, or has any one put up serious miles on such.
Has anyone in Ireland running any of these bikes,north or south.

thanks
steve

[Stuart]

No worries - easily done. Just deleted that misplaced post

[zarquon]

I'm sorry, but I've never heard something about an Yanmar with 456cc and 13hp.

The engine used several times is of the LN100 Type and has around 10 hp.
Check their specs page: http://www.yanmar.co.jp/en/engine/produ ... /spec.html

All bikes I know using the original Yanmar engine are running fine. Those with the chinese clones report some trouble from time to time.

[zoro]

The engines, that i was lookiing at where from Price Part. 456, 13hp @ 3600rpm, after looking at the site tonight, i see that these engines, must be copys, as there is no name details with the motor.
After looking at so many enfields with yanmar motors,online, i thought that these engines in question, where yanmars.

any info on the subject will be most welcome.

[penybryn]

As far as I know, Yanmar don't make an enlarged version of the L100, only the 406cc 10hp version which they have made for many years. The 13hp engine is enlarged by increasing the stroke by 2mm to give 418cc. This is produced by some of the Chinese 'clone' manufacturers. I believe that Price Parts started to stock this larger engine last year.

[snoopy]

In addition it seems to be the 418cc engines which have the problems. I read about one last week where the big end bearing let go destroying the engine.

[old clunker]

With the 'Yamclones', it depends on the manufacturer, and Chinese quality control?! from what I have read.
PricePart tend to use Suntom engines, but I don't know if the 456cc is a Suntom as well. I'm sure that Henry Price wouldn't want to fit or sell unreliable engines, and I haven't heard of any problems so far, with PricePart Royal Enfields fitted with this larger engine. I'm running the Suntom 406cc, which looks reasonably well made for a Chinese copy of a Japanese engine! It's been reliable so far, but have to get it through the 1000 mile mark before I can make a proper judgement. Unfortunately Yanmar diesel engines are extremely expensive in the UK, not helped by the almost worthless £ abroad, when it comes to importing things.
The Chinese are just 'reverse engineering' the Yanmar engines - some more successfully than others. That's what the Japanese did with British and German motorbike engines, at the beginning of their motorcycle industry. It's just that they got their culture of quality control right.

From what I've heard, Kipor and Suntom seem to be reasonably reliable, but Punsun/Winsun can be hit and miss with reliability and quality control. As for diesel engine manufacturers such as Kingpoo, I wonder if that's what their crankshafts and bearings are made of?!!!!!
Finally a strange idea - where do they get their engine names from?! In my case the manufacturer must have had a packet of sun dried tomatoes lying nearby and thought, "That'll be a good name for an engine"! As for Kipor, was it an orientally spelt 'fishy' kipper dinner that inspired the name?!

[snoopy]

I wonder how one finds out - mine came in a big nameless box and was painted yellow.

[old clunker]

Ah yes! but did it have a 'foody engine name' instruction/operating manual, written in "Chinglish" included like mine?! Also there should be an engine information plate/sticker bolted onto the engine as well.

[penybryn]

From a search online, it seems there is an increasing range of variants on the same basic design from a number of Chinese manufacturers now:

186F (L100) 86 x 70 = 406cc
186FA 86 x 72 = 418cc
188FA 88 x 72 = 438cc
188FB 88 x 75 = 456cc

[XLerate]

I suspect the 'problem' with Chinese engines is somewhat more complicated. I'm just guessing but it makes sense when you think about it.

Company A-Poo copies a Yanmar engine after dissecting it part by part, they get real close except for little knowledge or concern with exact materials specifications that were used by Yanmar. This could also be problematic if the original materials specs aren't even known, which is likely, and especially if those materials simply aren't available in the Chinese economy.

Company B-Poo gets in on the action & instead of the expense of purchasing a Yanmar & importing it, they just buy an A-Poo engine & copy that. They get fairly close to the A-Poo specs, and maybe they care even less about materials, if they're even able to understand the subject in depth.

Company C-Poo comes along, decides they can build engines too, and purchases a B-Poo engine to copy. Now the copycat is getting way too far from the original source engine but nobody much cares if it runs. Materials are the last thing they're worried about.

Over the course of time, copying copies of copies and disregarding materials specifications the whole thing's in the toilet. Problem is, it's impossible for a non-Chinese manufacturing insider to know what the pecking order is on a particular company & engine 'design'. Possibly a ballpark guess would be the date when a company was started, and what things they have mfd. in their history, but that lacks too.

[arnaud]

there seems to be some confusion, the 406 is 8.8 hp, the 418 is 10hp (which has run far over 50.K with my enfield) the 12 or 13 hp, especila from winsun(see ohter topic on this forum) has problems keeping the crankshaft in 1 piece.

[snoopy]

I don't know if I'd risk buying one of these 'overclocked' engines. It's tempting to have the extra power, but that power on the same bearings. Hmmm.

Yanmar do things like put the valves in under nitrogen cooling to make sure they are snug. That means they must have very strick tolerance on their machining. I doubt any of the clones have this level of precision.

[old clunker]

there seems to be some confusion, the 406 is 8.8 hp, the 418 is 10hp (which has run far over 50.K with my enfield) the 12 or 13 hp, especila from winsun(see ohter topic on this forum) has problems keeping the crankshaft in 1 piece.

Yes, even more confusion! since my Suntom 406cc engine data plate states it as 10hp, and the power difference between 406cc and 418cc would be negligeable hp wise (12cc difference in cylinder capacity!). I'm sure that the 50cc difference with the 456cc engine, might give an extra 2 to 3 hp power output - if you're lucky?!

[snoopy]

The 418cc is 10.3Hp, the 406 is 9.8Hp (according to the Chinese supplier I'm buying parts from).

[royaldragon]

I have a Winsun 13hp 456cc diesel in my Enfield. I have not fired it up in the bike yet though. I am almost finished with it just need to drill holes for engine, figure out throttle deal and fit all cables, paint new part of frame, reassemble and fuel and ride. Oh and add a couple parts from Elsbett to make it run well on veggie oil... wow it sounds like a lot when i write it all out.

Problem as of late is things keep coming up and I have trouble getting to the shop.

Henry prices conversion parts seem to fit with it just fine, only thing that seems a little difficult is his throttle bracket didn't have quite as much clearance from the engine when mounted to the gearbox bolts. I havn't fiddled with it more yet so it may not really be an issue.

I wonder if he decided to get the 13hp model after i asked him about using one with one of his conversion kits.

I know Arnaud had crank issues with his winsun 13hp. I don't know how he treated his engine though or what his set up was. I also don't know what brand Henry is using. You can always get a new crank and if it stresses you out you could get the engine, take out the crank and have someone heat treat it or duplicate it with better matterials. That would be the more expensive route. Or you could just get the engine and use it as is and probably be fine. Who knows. I can report more on my engine when I start riding it soon... yeah... soon... It better be soon...

[gavinfdavies]

hey guys. Just to throw a spanner in the works...

I've got one of Henry Price's enfields (1971) with a 456cc yanclone engine. It managed 435 miles before it blew up! The 41 year old bike was fine - it was the brand new engine that died.

On the up side, Henry says it's the first he's heard of, and he's been over the afternoon (160 miles each way!) to collect the bike to take it back to his and swap engines, and check its all ok now, so that's ok.


And yes, I am planning a turbo conversion and running on veg oil...

It was doing 55mph max, 50mph cruise, and 120mpg before it died. Two up was not a problem except on a very steep 10% hill which dropped me to 20mph.

So all in all, the 456s seem to be ok, and henry will sort any issues with them.

[zoro]

Hi Gavin

Was your bike the model with the sprung seat & pad, with the 18 litre tank, i seen this new bike in henrys workshop, in the last 2 weeks, when i was over with him, just wondering was this the bike you had bought. you can pm me, if you think it suits.

I spent a afternoon, riding the smaller model, & had great fun, brought the joy back into riding.

Sorry to hear of your problems.

[gavinfdavies]

spooky eh! Yeah, that sounds like mine. Dr Henry has had a look - BROKEN CRANK! mental eh? He's put a new one in and improved the gear shift and front brake.

She'll have a hard working life with me - over 2,500 miles a month is planned. The engine is good for about 55mph top cruising, might hit 60 down a hill, tailwind, off cliff etc! 50 is more easily attainable, but don't expect to top 40mph up hill! Think the performance of an articulated HGV and you'll be close!

It could really do with about 20% more power. 65-70 cruise would be much better, and allow 55mph up hill would improve matters. The gear shift is the thing that will hold you back the most, but it imrpoves with practise.

I'm looking at a turbo conversion, and I intend to run it on a fresh veg oil blend - 99.9p a litre for new veg oil, and no hassle with filtering it like you have to do with used oil.

any other questions?

[arnaud]

there were some issues, wel, major crankshaft issues with the winsun 13 hp engine.. the broke quickly.
i wonder if the 13 hp yanclones now offered are winsun engines (same sh*t) or a better manufacturer.
my bullet has ran ver 60.000km with a chinese 418cc engine without major trouble.

[gavinfdavies]

Henry said this wasn't a winsun, making refence to the fact they're know to be just a wee bit shite. We'll see how the new engine fares.

[royaldragon]

Hmm... arnaud already had me worried about crank brakage now I'm even more concerned. Any one have ideas how to prevent this before it happens. Someone mentioned taking the crank to have it heat treated. I wonder if it might just be wise to take it to a machine shop and have them duplicate it with better materials... hmm. Maybe have them make a few and sell them to those of you who also have the same engine.
Oh well regardless of what I do only time will tell.

As far as running the thing on veg/plant oil don't just throw the stuff in there you will mes up the engine faster than the crank will fail. I am sending my information to Alexander of ANC in Germany and he will be assisting me in converting it to run correctly with a single tank. I will post my findings and his recomendations. He might modify my cylinder and injectors and whatever else he deems necessary. He is the guy to talk to if you want it done right. anc.me if you want to contact him yourself.

[rednorfolk]

I have been reading this post with interest. My little Royal Enfield diesel runs a 406cc currently with a Sidewinder attached. I've had no engine problems with mine other than a few oil leaks which were cured with new gaskets. The Chopper project I am working on at the moment - is a 456cc 13bhp which I purchased from Henry Price . I am looking forward to getting it on the road and I have another Sidewinder to fit on that for camping too.

[zoro]

i have been waiting for henry to receive, the v5, back for the diesel enfield, that i have bought from him, hopefully i will have the bike over in the next few weeks, all these posts, have made me believe, that some have had problems, early on, in the life of the engines & others have been riding daily, with little problems. I do intend, to ride a lot & cover a lot of road miles.
This will have me interested, in warming the engine up to working temp, before setting of, on a trip, a good service, every 1000 miles with good oil, & not to over stress, the engine, when loaded, in to high a gear, in general looking after the engine & having a feel at how the engine is running.

I have been trying to find details, on the problems of the german sommer, enfields, using the hatz motors, but with the searches, to find any problems, ect, on some of the german sites i,ve done, these details seem hard to find, problems, not the details or specs on the bikes, i,ve already read these, with a lot of good press, about the bikes. As i,ve never been to any of the diesel rally,s that any of the sommer hatz bikes have been there, has any one spoke with any of the owners of these bikes, with any known faults?????

I,m asking this of the people with the answers, Mr Price has been building, the diesels for a while now in england, is there a pattern showing, that most of these bikes, or very little of them, have problems with his engine choice, that he has been using.????????

Has me wondering at what life span, i will receive, from the bike, or will i be posting sooner than later, here with the dreaded post, of engine failure.

any thoughts most welcome

[snoopy]

Henry's a good guy so you don't have to worry about help should you need it.

My 418cc has done over 10k with no internal troubles. I have had multiple fuel pump failures and the flywheel key snapped off. I also replaced the injector as they are crap by default.

[res0wc18]

any updates to this.

Im considering buying one of henrys bikes and im a little concerned about the chinese diesel.