Punsen Harley
Moderators: Dan J, Diesel Dave, Crazymanneil, Stuart
Punsen Harley
Hi Guys,
Some discusion about the Punsen v-twin at the moment. Heres my take on a diesel bike. 1996 Sportster frame, no modification to frame simply engine mounts and drive shaft to fit. Right hand side chain drive so no unnecessary mods there. Still a long way from a runner but the basics are all there.
I have no particular love of either Harleys or Cruisers but with limited skills and equipment this seemed the simplest way forward.
Contrary to popular belief its a reasonably cheap option. The second hand market is flooded with Harley bits that become redundant as people customise.
Hope to have this running and testes by the June Rally.
Some discusion about the Punsen v-twin at the moment. Heres my take on a diesel bike. 1996 Sportster frame, no modification to frame simply engine mounts and drive shaft to fit. Right hand side chain drive so no unnecessary mods there. Still a long way from a runner but the basics are all there.
I have no particular love of either Harleys or Cruisers but with limited skills and equipment this seemed the simplest way forward.
Contrary to popular belief its a reasonably cheap option. The second hand market is flooded with Harley bits that become redundant as people customise.
Hope to have this running and testes by the June Rally.
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- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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Hi, things to look out for on what I see in the pictures:
Keep a check on the back wheel for loose spokes, these are a common problem on sportsters, if you find them loose and can't tighten them then they are stretched and will need replacing.
The brake system is not the best in the world, and it has a problem, if you mix the fluid with different types / makes, the seals rot, what happens now is the caliper will seize and the disc will now start to dish! Way dangerous, it happened to my old bike.
Being a 1996 it should have a belt drive (way better than a chain), have you swapped it for a chain sprocket or are you keeping the belt pulley? If you need a pulley for the gearbox you can get different types and sizes from Fenner http://www.fptgroup.com/index/index.asp or Gates http://www.gates.com/index.cfm
I just thought, have you got the V5c logbook with the frame? This is very important cos if you picked the frame up cheap then it's probably because the previous owner has re stamped the numbers on to a custom made frame. In the eyes of the law if you have the frame numbers in tact you can apply for a log book, but the owner of the custom Harley isn't going to be very happy, and if he speeds past a speed camera you will end up with a ticket.
For those who don't know a sportster frame with out V5 logbook will cost around £80 to £100. And with a V5 the going price is £1000.
Hope I've helped, and look forward to seeing the finished bike.
Ian
Keep a check on the back wheel for loose spokes, these are a common problem on sportsters, if you find them loose and can't tighten them then they are stretched and will need replacing.
The brake system is not the best in the world, and it has a problem, if you mix the fluid with different types / makes, the seals rot, what happens now is the caliper will seize and the disc will now start to dish! Way dangerous, it happened to my old bike.
Being a 1996 it should have a belt drive (way better than a chain), have you swapped it for a chain sprocket or are you keeping the belt pulley? If you need a pulley for the gearbox you can get different types and sizes from Fenner http://www.fptgroup.com/index/index.asp or Gates http://www.gates.com/index.cfm
I just thought, have you got the V5c logbook with the frame? This is very important cos if you picked the frame up cheap then it's probably because the previous owner has re stamped the numbers on to a custom made frame. In the eyes of the law if you have the frame numbers in tact you can apply for a log book, but the owner of the custom Harley isn't going to be very happy, and if he speeds past a speed camera you will end up with a ticket.
For those who don't know a sportster frame with out V5 logbook will cost around £80 to £100. And with a V5 the going price is £1000.
Hope I've helped, and look forward to seeing the finished bike.
Ian
Ian,
Thanks for the tips. You guessed correct that it was cheap because it didnt come with a v5.
Did some research before spending the money in case I ended up with a paperwork lost cause. Finally spoke to the motorcycle bloke in charge of SVA.
As its over 10 years old it isnt necessary to SVA it (hooray). Also providing it retains original frame,suspension and brakes it can be registered as a modified bike and not a new build. Again this bypasses the need for SVA. This is providing that the manufacturer will confirm in writing that they produced it and when. Harley customer services sent this within 48hrs of ringing. This should negate the need for a Q plate and it can be issued an age related plate.
I'll feel a lot happier when the reg is complete cos I have a big mistrust of paperwork and jobsworths. Also I agree that if at all possible buy with a v5 and save the agro. But if it does go smoothly then not only have I saved a stack of cash on initial purchase but added value to the box of bits I purchased.
Fingers crossed
Thanks for the tips. You guessed correct that it was cheap because it didnt come with a v5.
Did some research before spending the money in case I ended up with a paperwork lost cause. Finally spoke to the motorcycle bloke in charge of SVA.
As its over 10 years old it isnt necessary to SVA it (hooray). Also providing it retains original frame,suspension and brakes it can be registered as a modified bike and not a new build. Again this bypasses the need for SVA. This is providing that the manufacturer will confirm in writing that they produced it and when. Harley customer services sent this within 48hrs of ringing. This should negate the need for a Q plate and it can be issued an age related plate.
I'll feel a lot happier when the reg is complete cos I have a big mistrust of paperwork and jobsworths. Also I agree that if at all possible buy with a v5 and save the agro. But if it does go smoothly then not only have I saved a stack of cash on initial purchase but added value to the box of bits I purchased.
Fingers crossed
- Diesel Dave
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Pusun harley
Most impressive, have you run up the motor yet?
I was wondering if you could recreate the diesel version of the Harley 'Potato, potato' exhaust sound.
I noticed that the Punsun has an oil cooler as standard and so would be easy to tap for a turbo feed, any intentions in this direction?
Are you in Oxford UK or US?
Regards
Dave
I was wondering if you could recreate the diesel version of the Harley 'Potato, potato' exhaust sound.
I noticed that the Punsun has an oil cooler as standard and so would be easy to tap for a turbo feed, any intentions in this direction?
Are you in Oxford UK or US?
Regards
Dave
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- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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Hey good news saved a bundle.
Officialdom seems to have lowered its sights I was told the bike had to be rebuilt to show room condition and mot it, Ha! Try doing that with a 1948 bike
Registered as a modified bike, that used to worry me as insurance companies wouldn't touch a modded bike with a ten foot cattle prod. Bennett’s still don't.
By the way guys for the sake of your wallet don't get your insurance with Bennett’s, they cancelled a policy with my Harley cos it was regarded as modded, and then I had a 6 month battle getting my money back. They said they had paid me on day one, I had to threaten them with legal action.
Carroll Nash, brilliant, cheaper too.
Anyhow back to the bike, did it have the numbers on the frame?
Officialdom seems to have lowered its sights I was told the bike had to be rebuilt to show room condition and mot it, Ha! Try doing that with a 1948 bike
Registered as a modified bike, that used to worry me as insurance companies wouldn't touch a modded bike with a ten foot cattle prod. Bennett’s still don't.
By the way guys for the sake of your wallet don't get your insurance with Bennett’s, they cancelled a policy with my Harley cos it was regarded as modded, and then I had a 6 month battle getting my money back. They said they had paid me on day one, I had to threaten them with legal action.
Carroll Nash, brilliant, cheaper too.
Anyhow back to the bike, did it have the numbers on the frame?
- andrewaust
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Hi Fiddler
Hay! Nice looking project you got there. Be sure to keep us posted as you go along as I'm sure others will be looking on with great interest
If you ever think of going Turbo etc - be sure to inquire with the manufacturer as Yanmar did have concerns when a University http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/biobike/ here in OZ done a M/C Biobike project and used a blower from a Peugeot scooter on there single cyl 406cc.
That looks like a hefty CVT your going to run "good thinking", and the sporty frame matches up real neat with the engine etc. The other bonus is the rear chain drive is on the RHS, so the drive forces through the jackshaft evens out.
Cheers
Andrew
Hay! Nice looking project you got there. Be sure to keep us posted as you go along as I'm sure others will be looking on with great interest
If you ever think of going Turbo etc - be sure to inquire with the manufacturer as Yanmar did have concerns when a University http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/biobike/ here in OZ done a M/C Biobike project and used a blower from a Peugeot scooter on there single cyl 406cc.
That looks like a hefty CVT your going to run "good thinking", and the sporty frame matches up real neat with the engine etc. The other bonus is the rear chain drive is on the RHS, so the drive forces through the jackshaft evens out.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the interest. Good to have some feedback to confirm its going along the right lines. I knew i was gambling a bit with the registration process and a modded bike but if it works out it gives us all a lot of other cheap options.
In answer to your questions,
Im near Oxford Uk and hope to make next years rally if it goes smoothly.
Havnt run the engine up yet as I have a problem with the regulator.I'll start a new thread and would be grateful for your help. No thoughts of Turbo at the moment.
Yes the frame numbers are intact and untampered. It is receipted from a Harley shop. Also I found an on-line vin checking site to double check its legit. It appeared both legit and unregistered.
The man at SVA supplied contact details of an insurance firm who specialise in modded vehicles. Particularly ones without specific automotive engine numbers. This is still a gamble as I hope the premiums dont eat away at any savings so far. But again if it works out ok its gives us all other options.
Yes I went a little bit overkill with the CVT. Its a comet "duster". Comet states that this is the one to go for with v-twins. I was a little concerned about its size and ergonomics for footpegs but decided that this was better than taking risks with reliability.
As a point of interest for those in the UK. The SVA bloke stated that putting one of these projects through an emmisions test shouldnt prove a problem if necessary. I forget his exact words but he hinted that testing for diesels hadnt yet become as stringent as those for petrol. Indeed he said that there is no "emmisions" test but rather it is a "particle" test. Therefore it would be tested against the same standards as commercial vehicles and would sail through.
Forgot to probe him about noise. He was incredibly helpful and I'd taken up a lot of his time already.
All the best
Thanks for the interest. Good to have some feedback to confirm its going along the right lines. I knew i was gambling a bit with the registration process and a modded bike but if it works out it gives us all a lot of other cheap options.
In answer to your questions,
Im near Oxford Uk and hope to make next years rally if it goes smoothly.
Havnt run the engine up yet as I have a problem with the regulator.I'll start a new thread and would be grateful for your help. No thoughts of Turbo at the moment.
Yes the frame numbers are intact and untampered. It is receipted from a Harley shop. Also I found an on-line vin checking site to double check its legit. It appeared both legit and unregistered.
The man at SVA supplied contact details of an insurance firm who specialise in modded vehicles. Particularly ones without specific automotive engine numbers. This is still a gamble as I hope the premiums dont eat away at any savings so far. But again if it works out ok its gives us all other options.
Yes I went a little bit overkill with the CVT. Its a comet "duster". Comet states that this is the one to go for with v-twins. I was a little concerned about its size and ergonomics for footpegs but decided that this was better than taking risks with reliability.
As a point of interest for those in the UK. The SVA bloke stated that putting one of these projects through an emmisions test shouldnt prove a problem if necessary. I forget his exact words but he hinted that testing for diesels hadnt yet become as stringent as those for petrol. Indeed he said that there is no "emmisions" test but rather it is a "particle" test. Therefore it would be tested against the same standards as commercial vehicles and would sail through.
Forgot to probe him about noise. He was incredibly helpful and I'd taken up a lot of his time already.
All the best
6 speed gears
I like it alot. Could an aftermarket 6 speed gearbox Be used?
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Punson Harley
Gentlemen, this is all so delightful to read! Here we all are, scattered across the map and each re-inventing the wheel, were it not for the opportunity to share notes like this. I fell upon an elemental old Husky enduro from the early '70's to pair-up with my Hatz 1B30 hacked off a fused-up Wacker trash-pump that cleared salty bilge water on a bridge retro project until one day it wouldn't start, when it went in the dumpster. A humble beginning, you say? The Hatz plant is proven, and healthy enough tho I will likely trade to a new one with electrics (who wants to have a pull-cord on their cool bike?). Like the Harley, Huskies have the RHD which makes them easily modded with a CVT. As a bonus, they have the old Akront rims and conical hubs, which allows the "sculpting" of my project to pass-off as some old Brit club-racer (ever seen 1962 AJS model 16C around these parts? nobody else has either...honest, that's what this is!) This brings up the interesting topic which you have discussed, legitimizing for road use. I can say that here, too (CA,US)there may be trials ahead with several potential approaches to choose from, including the one just alluded to. Also, the sales rep of a certain stationary diesel engine importer advised me against applying his product due to its non-compliance to EPA standards, warning of severe fines (25,000USD per offense) and adding that they will go after us!!! On the other hand, he was just doing his job, and when he was done, he finished with "have fun!". Point being, after reading the DieselBike website, I figured all this was easier across the pond, and am interested to see that these issues are actually more universal in scope. For my part, I'm trying to decide to commit to the 1:7 final drive ratio that will land me with a 70-74 tooth ginormous sprocket on the rear hub, and a tiny 10-tooth one wrapped around my 1" jackshaft, behind my Model 500 Comet CVT. Good Luck! J.
"It's amazing how long things take when you're not working on them..." (unknown)
--Building small, lightweight Clubman-style bike, based on 1972 Husquvarna/Hatz 1B30/Comet 500CVT--
--Building small, lightweight Clubman-style bike, based on 1972 Husquvarna/Hatz 1B30/Comet 500CVT--
- balboa_71
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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Jeremy,
You don't need a 10 tooth sprocket on your jackshaft, you might go with a 14 or 15 tooth to get a reduction of say, 4-1/2 to 1 on the rear drive.
How would the EPA know that one's engine (I'm assuming your talking clone)
is or isn't compliant? There are many engines that have been sitting in containers for years waiting for someone to discover them and put them on eBay (like mine was).
Anyways, good luck with your conversion, keep us posted
Cris
You don't need a 10 tooth sprocket on your jackshaft, you might go with a 14 or 15 tooth to get a reduction of say, 4-1/2 to 1 on the rear drive.
How would the EPA know that one's engine (I'm assuming your talking clone)
is or isn't compliant? There are many engines that have been sitting in containers for years waiting for someone to discover them and put them on eBay (like mine was).
Anyways, good luck with your conversion, keep us posted
Cris
1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
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- Been here a while now..
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Thanks Cris, The Husky came with a 13:53 final drive, or 4-to-one, and I've been noticing that 52 is common sprocket on like dirtbikes. If I continue with that ratio, a 4.00/ 18 rear tire and my engine engaging @ around 2100rpm and topping out at 3600-3750, will I have enough low-gear to start on a hill and climb one reasonably well, without toasting my clutch??? If so, then why is Comet Don recommending the 70+teeth on the wheel? Shed some light on this for me if you can...are you relating from your own experience with the CVT's? (One of the guys I talked with did say that it wouldn't hurt to try factory ratio before I change it.) I'm all ears!
"It's amazing how long things take when you're not working on them..." (unknown)
--Building small, lightweight Clubman-style bike, based on 1972 Husquvarna/Hatz 1B30/Comet 500CVT--
--Building small, lightweight Clubman-style bike, based on 1972 Husquvarna/Hatz 1B30/Comet 500CVT--
- balboa_71
- I luv the smell of Diesel...
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- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:27 pm
- Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Jeremy,
I answered your questions in the other section under Technical Talk. But for the record, IMHO, stock bike gearing (standard front and rear sprockets) provide too talk a final drive ratio.....you need about 4-1/2 to 1 ratio when using a Comet drive and driven unit. By going to a large rear sprocket, you can use a larger front sprocket which keeps the chain from having to wrap itself around a very small front sprocket. You have more teeth engaged in the chain and sprocket life is greatly increased. You'll enjoy faster off the line starting when you use the above mentioned ratio.
Cris
I answered your questions in the other section under Technical Talk. But for the record, IMHO, stock bike gearing (standard front and rear sprockets) provide too talk a final drive ratio.....you need about 4-1/2 to 1 ratio when using a Comet drive and driven unit. By going to a large rear sprocket, you can use a larger front sprocket which keeps the chain from having to wrap itself around a very small front sprocket. You have more teeth engaged in the chain and sprocket life is greatly increased. You'll enjoy faster off the line starting when you use the above mentioned ratio.
Cris
1980 GS850 converted to 10hp diesel clone power.
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
2006 Jetta TDI for road work.
2007 Bonneville
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I didn't realise bikes needed an emmissions check in the UK or is this just because you are going through an SVA? It hasn't been introduced in the annual MOT has it?I thought the SVA only applied to cars and if you could get the frame dated you would get an age related number plate?I presume it would be much simpler to get a frame/bike already registered? It's also a bit ironic that the insurance companies don't like modded bikes as I believe this originally started because of all the "go faster" goodies that were being added to bikes and adding cost/risk to the machine when we are doing the opposite re speed and not doing a lot for the value:roll:
Brent,
Latest on the project is that its at my local back street hero whos fabricating the last parts ( primary drive casing, forward pegs and exhaust routing). Struck lucky and found a proper old fashioned british shed engineer who makes top spec drag bikes from the ground up, wheels, frames the lot. Felt very humble wheeling a pressure washer powered harley into his workshop Should be back in a month or so and I'll post up how i get on with setting up/tuning the CVT and gearing, and all those other little teething problems which are bound to arise.
Gilburton,
I found exactly what i wanted for my project off ebay for sensible money as it was unregistered . I agree if you can find what you want with a V5 then do it and save any potential agro.
As best as i understand it, no emissions test is required for an MOT.
All new builds such as one off custom frames require the dreaded SVA.
To register any other bike will require the SVA if it is less than 10 years old even if its bog standard.
Bikes older than 10 years old are exempt SVA and can be issued age related plates provided you have proof of manufacturer and age.
Projects such as ours can be registered as modified and negate SVA providing certain major components remain as original.
The SVA for diesels contains a particle test but no emmissions test as such. Most properly running engines ought to comfortably meet the requirements as they are not yet as stringent as our petrol friends.
I hope this helps. If you need clarification ring the DVLA as a first point of contact and track down the bloke in charge of SVA . Hes incredibly helpful.
Cheers, Mark
Latest on the project is that its at my local back street hero whos fabricating the last parts ( primary drive casing, forward pegs and exhaust routing). Struck lucky and found a proper old fashioned british shed engineer who makes top spec drag bikes from the ground up, wheels, frames the lot. Felt very humble wheeling a pressure washer powered harley into his workshop Should be back in a month or so and I'll post up how i get on with setting up/tuning the CVT and gearing, and all those other little teething problems which are bound to arise.
Gilburton,
I found exactly what i wanted for my project off ebay for sensible money as it was unregistered . I agree if you can find what you want with a V5 then do it and save any potential agro.
As best as i understand it, no emissions test is required for an MOT.
All new builds such as one off custom frames require the dreaded SVA.
To register any other bike will require the SVA if it is less than 10 years old even if its bog standard.
Bikes older than 10 years old are exempt SVA and can be issued age related plates provided you have proof of manufacturer and age.
Projects such as ours can be registered as modified and negate SVA providing certain major components remain as original.
The SVA for diesels contains a particle test but no emmissions test as such. Most properly running engines ought to comfortably meet the requirements as they are not yet as stringent as our petrol friends.
I hope this helps. If you need clarification ring the DVLA as a first point of contact and track down the bloke in charge of SVA . Hes incredibly helpful.
Cheers, Mark