"Diesel Model" in the 10th May 1956 issue of The Motor Cycle

[zarquon]

Does anybody know what "Diesel Model" might be featured in this 10th May 1956 issue of The Motor Cycle magazine?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290563703163

[rednorfolk]

dont no,ill ask my dad,he is 80 so was there 1st time round for the book.

[Diesel Dave]

I'll let you know when the magazine arrives

You can pay me your half of the cost at Hamm.

[Diesel Dave]

Here you are:



It's a SIC (Sidney Industrial Consultants) home brewed motor in what looks like a BSA chassis.

Interesting engine, 464cc 3" bore and 4" stroke at 19:1 compression.

Reportedly 55 mph and 14hp at 4000 rpm.

I only wish I could find it

[zarquon]

He have no 464cc engine with 14 horses today ...

We should really find these three bikes. the CHH 312, the KUD 711 and the TAF 282.


The-Classic-Motorcycle-November-1992---Sidney-Diesel-Norton von bigzark auf Flickr


Diesel Ariel in MotorCycling November 1959 von bigzark auf Flickr


Norton ES2 Diesel in der Zeitschrift Hobby Januar 1955 von bigzark auf Flickr

[Anorak_ian]

Well there are no details about the Norton CHH312 in the DVLA computer.
So the registration number CHH312 does not exist anymore.

In 1972 all of the local vehicle licensing offices (Birmingham, Manchester, London etc) closed down when all vehicle records were centralised in one place, the new DVLA in Swansea.
Unfortunately, instead of local offices passing on all of the vehicle information that they had to the DVLA, they burned them. It was the responsibility of the vehicle owners to re register their vehicles with the DVLA and a whole lot of owners didn't.

There must have been a lot of bikes off the road going through rebuilds etc. Which is probably the case with CHH312.

Good news STOP PRESS etc!

Ariel KOD711 has been re taxed 25/1/2012 with DVLA, so the old bugger is on the road!
Reg date 16/6/1949 - 500cc - heavy oil - red in colour.
I believe this bike was "born again diesel" in Crediton Exeter. A while back I have asked some Crediton bike part dealers to keep an eye open for this bike or it's parts, but no information. So I'm guessing that the bike decided to move location, taking its rider with it.

I think I'll do a bit more hunting, see what I can come up with.

Ian

[zarquon]

Ariel KOD711 has been re taxed 25/1/2012 with DVLA, so the old bugger is on the road!
Reg date 16/6/1949 - 500cc - heavy oil - red in colour.

Yes! Go and catch it! Happy hunting!

[Stuart]

After inviting Gordon Glover to a rally I got this back last year. He didn't know about the bike but I'll ask again

Dear Stuart,
Thankyou for your letter concerning the whereabouts of Gordon Glover and the invitation you have extended to him. He was a cousin of ours, but unfortunately died in 2000. HE continued with his interest in engineering and especially steam power until then. 

Thanks,
James Glover

[rednorfolk]

Ariel KOD711 has been re taxed 25/1/2012 with DVLA, so the old bugger is on the road!
Reg date 16/6/1949 - 500cc - heavy oil - red in colour.

Yes! Go and catch it! Happy hunting!

be good to see that bike,and get it to the big knock 2013..

[Anorak_ian]

Yes that would be something to see.

It would be a crying shame if someone replaced the engine with a petrol job.

[gilburton]

It's always struck me that engineers in the 1950's could convert an existing bike to diesel; If it could be done then why not now?
Were the engines then able to cope with the high compression easier due to their construction??
I'm no engineer but surely it would be easier to convert an existing engine so all the bike parts would remain the same making the complete conversion easier with no frame mods etc.
What about an Enfield petrol/gas engine conversion as it's the nearest modern bike to the original designs or the older BMW R series flat twins. No overhead camshafts to worry about. Or Harleys?? I'm sure they are strong enough.
Chinese diesel pumps etc. are easily sourced so maintenance would be cheap. The other benefit is that as it is an existing bike it would bypass a lot of laws and if produced in low volume kit form most owners could fit it themselves or possibly a complete engine exchange service could be offered.
As I said I'm no engineer but I'm sure some of you out there are capable
Just some idle thoughts on (another)rainy friday afternoon in the UK.

[zarquon]

It's always struck me that engineers in the 1950's could convert an existing bike to diesel; If it could be done then why not now?

We have two converted machines back in the 1950s. Not more.
Did you noticed the engines needed a mixture of Ether and Kerosene to start?
Maybe nobody wants to deal with this. And I'm sure nobody would like to handle this today.

What about an Enfield petrol/gas engine conversion as it's the nearest modern bike to the original designs or the older BMW R series flat twins. No overhead camshafts to worry about. Or Harleys?? I'm sure they are strong enough.

We have a converted Harley In the US for years. http://advanced-engines-corp.com/
This is well known. These guys took an S&S engine and converted it to diesel - simplified.
Take a look at the prices of these S&S engines ...

Chinese diesel pumps etc. are easily sourced so maintenance would be cheap.

... and rethink the word "cheap".

[Anorak_ian]

I'm guessing that many people would like to lynch you for converting a Commando or Bonneville to diesel, also these old bikes are getting very expensive these days.

The money simply would not be in to it to convert on a commercial basis, nor the bikes.
You would need completely new heads and pistons due to the low compression. Unless you used a glow plug for starting the engine, and a turbo to give it some compression.

I don't think that the bottom end would be any problem, just re engineer (everything bigger).

But is it worth doing all this to a 650 - 850cc engine.


Hang on; did J.A.P ever make a diesel engine? Now there’s a thought.

[gilburton]

I think you have both partially misunderstood my post. I simply meant if it could be done then with limited means and the technology available why not now?
I wasn't suggesting converting classic bikes. That's why I mentioned the Indian Enfield and BMW flat twins. Imagine the BMW as 2 separate singles with a heavier flywheel/clutch.
I know a lot of us like the actual building process and conversion but if a standard looking diesel engine could be slotted in how good would that be??
I know it will mean converting cylinder heads/barrels/pistons etc. I just wondered if this was why older bikes were more suitable as they generally had heavy studs running through the cyl head and barrel into the crankcase.
Japanese engines are probably a bit "light" in construction to convert easily with smaller flywheels.
There are plenty of people who have built"specials" in sheds with limited tools etc. so if someone had access to decent facilities, either amateur or professional,I'm sure it could be done. There are quite a few impressive conversions in general on this site. As I said in another post there is a guy in the Uk who cuts crankcases with a hacksaw yes a hacksaw and creates double engined Kawasakis.
Pistons are readily available so, once the dimensions are known, suitable standard diesel car pistons could be used.
I understand that in the US small diesels are a bit rarer so parts may be neither cheap or available.
It's quite common for people to use pistons from other applications to repair or modify vehicles where original components are no longer available.
Most small diesel car engines in europe range from 1300-2000cc so that gives the option of around 350/500 single cylinder bikes up to say 700/1000cc twins using individual pistons.
If you mean "cheap" in reference to quality then yes it can be dubious. I just meant again in the fifties these parts were not common and they are now available at reasonable cost making conversion easier. The yanmar chinese clone type injection pumps are currently around £40 on ebay uk. So 2 pumps for a twin etc?? Maybe running off a camshft with extra lobes??
Apart from cost the Lombardini/Bosch type combined injection pump would be ideal for bikes.
If you mean "cheap" in relation to cost the advanced engines effort in your link started with an S&S motor so that wasn't cheap in standard form. Again I just mentioned Harleys as a possible donor if it's strong enough?? Interestingly I noticed the little 2 stroke prototype using "heavy fuel" if they mean diesel then that might be more of a possibility.
VW and others initially used a fuel injection system that replaced the distributer and the injectors were fitted to,in effect,an extra spark plug hole. I know these were petrol but you get the idea. If you look at the some of the bikes in the articles I think the injector is actually in the barrel?? This might be a bad idea but diesel technology was not fully understood then.
We all know that prototypes and "one offs" are expensive but once moulds for crankcases/barrels etc are made the next one is cheaper and so on.
Look at the small production runs of big bore kits that are/were available for triumphs for example.
Until diesel bike technology can produce a bike with reasonable performance and economy at commuter bike prices they'll never sell in any numbers.
Industrial engines will never be any good as they are low tech and not made for the rev changes required for flexible road use. Good for us cheapskates though
I agree that there is probably not a mass market and nobody will make a fortune but "in principal" I think it could be done
Leaving aside cost any real engineers out there willing to comment??

[gilburton]

Just seen the thread in the engines section of bike building threads so I don't want to start another similar thread so please consider these comments closed unless the moderators wish to transfer it.