Old Clunker 'Vegefuel' experiments.

[old clunker]

As promised, I'm sharing my experiences of running my old Royal Enfield on vegetable oil fuel blends, now I have covered around 416 miles in various traffic and temperature conditions, with no real problems. It's taken some time to clock up the miles, due to the London traffic and the cold and wet winter weather! I managed to ride the bike up to the 23rd of December, and now it's in short term 'hibernation'!

To be on the safe side, a new engine must first be run in properly, preferably on diesel! Then the diesel engine health has to be monitored, by regular checking of engine oil level, colour and condition. Oil changes at around 500 to 1000 miles should preferably be done, with engine oil filter cleaning, and checking the old engine oil for any noticeable metal particles, indicating engine wear. If the engine starting also remains good, then there should be no problems with engine health, running on vegefuels!
It's your own responsiblity when making up the vegetable oil blends, and monitoring your bike's diesel engine health. I'm merely sharing my own personal experiences of riding my diesel motorbike in London traffic condtions!

The first bit is an introduction to what it is all about, for people that are new to running engines on renewable fuels.

So why am I bothering to experiment with renewable vegetable oil fuels, since the diesel engines on motorbikes are already very fuel efficient compared with petrol (gasolene) engines, and still costs less to run using current "dino" diesel - you may ask?!
Well, even if you aren't interested in the evironmental case of excessively burning fossil fuels, in an uncontrolled and unknown"experiment" in the earth's atmosphere; the cost of oil is ever rising, and there are ever more developing countries around the world prepared to bid as much as it takes on the crude oil market, to get their strategic share of the available barrels of oil. Plus despite regular new oil discoveries, it is getting ever more difficult and expensive to extract and transport the oil to where it is wanted.

My thinking is to rely more on very fuel efficient engines, running on renewable fuel sources, such as vegetable oil, which can help reduce the CO2 emissions in the atmosphere; and if it is produced from GM crops, so much the better! since a lot of environmental groups say, ''the best thing is to is to burn GM crops rather than eat them.'' So I'm doing my ''environmental'' bit by burning GM produced cheap vegetable oil in my motorbike diesel engine!

A brief recap on the history of the diesel engine shows that in 1900, a successful working engine was demonstrated working in Paris, running on peanut oil, and was shown to be an ideal engine for farmers, where they could grow their own fuel crops. Dr. Rudolph Diesel designed his engine to run on a variety of oil fuels, and saw his engine as a way of freeing people from the monopoly of the steam and coal industries, who had a tight grip on the energy markets at the time. He was also extremely interested in improving the thermodynamic efficiency of engines, so he used the compression igntion design.
He died controversially in 1913, on a ship sailing to England, travelling to a meeting in London with a diesel engine maunfacturing company. Many conspiracy theories exist regarding his death. Some people thought he comitted suicide, whilst others thought that he was killed to protect the interests of either the steam industry, or the newly emerging monopoly oil companies such as Standard Oil, who wanted a use for their then unwanted by- product of heavy fuel oil, left over from gasolene/petrol production; and didn't want the new diesel engine design to be developed to run on vegetable oils.

Subsequent to Dr. Rudolph Diesel's death, the diesel engine has been unfortunately developed and optimised to run on what is now called diesel fuel - the leftover's from the crude oil refining processes! Though direct injection engines have the possibilities of running/being modified to run on vegetable/renewable fuels.

Older German car diesel engines, such as VW, Audi and Mercedes, built up to the early 1990's have been found to run very well on alternative fuels, and the Germans have been pioneers doing this for many years. There's quite a bit of information about this on the internet.
Unfortunately, it looks like only direct injection engines are suitable to run reliably on renewable vegetable oil based fuels, and engines with Lucas or CAV fuel pumps and injectors are unsuitable, and do not run reliably.
Some older Peugeot and Renault diesel engines have been modified to run on vegetable oil based fuels, but need more modification, and apparently are not as reliable.
At the moment, it appears all new indirect injection engines cannot run reliably on alternative fuels, so it is best to stick with old simple diesel engine technology!
There could be a new conspiracy theory, that the oil industry/motor engine manufacturers, don't want to make modern diesel common rail injection engine designs, to run on multiple sourced renewable fuels?!

Anyway, enough of history and theories! here is what I have practically found, using my vegetable oil fuel blends so far.

Because the diesel engine is typically optimised to run on diesel fuel, what I aim to do, is to simulate diesel as closely as possible, regarding viscosity and cetane value. This is so the vegetable oil burns normally, with no noticeable engine power loss, and allows the diesel injector and fuel pump to work properly and not overstress them, and to prevent the injector nozzles blocking up. It also hopefully prevents the piston rings gumming up over time.
By getting the vegefuel mix viscosity correct, it also allows cold engine starting and running similar to diesel fuel. I keep a sample jar of diesel for viscosity comparison, when I make up my vegefuel blend.
From other people's experiences, vegetable oil burns cleaner than diesel oil so there should be less carbon deposits bulding up inside the engine.

[old clunker]

Continuing on from the first Vegefuel experiments post, The first vegefuel mix I have used, is the cheapest GM vegetable oil from the supermarket chain
Asda, in 15 litre (3.3 gallon) containers, which worked out at just under 99p per litre.
The flammable solvent I used, to get the viscosity as similar to the diesel sample I have, is White Sprit, used for brush cleaning. It's a derivative of Paraffin, and is relatively safe to use and handle. A ratio of 4 parts of oil to 1 part of White Spirit is used, so 4 litres (8.4 pints) of cooking oil to 1 litre (2.1 pints) of White Spirit, to fill a 1 gallon fuel can.
Turps Subsitute can also be used, as it has a similar viscosity, and both have an advantage of quite high Cetane content.
The cheapest White Spirt appears to be at Wilkinsons, at £3.47 for 2 litres at the moment.
The Cetane value of the fuel, and cleaner burning and fuel condition stability is provided by adding just under 10 ML (millilitres) of the very economical Longma VPlus7 fuel additive to the fuel can at the end.
Longma fuel additives have been around for some time, in the world of alternative renewable fuels, and provide useful fuel solutions, and their website is easily found.
An alternative could be to use Napthta, either in liquid form or crushed up mothball, to enhance the Cetane value of the fuel, if the Longma VPlus7 cannot be obtained easily.

The current cost per litre for the blended vegetable oil fuel is around £1.15, and is a lot cheaper than diesel!!

I have run the motorbike for about 314 miles on this blend, with no starting and running problems, and the engine runs a lot smoother, with no harsh knocking, unlike running on diesel.

I've started and run the diesel engine on this blend, at temperatures ranging from +25 degrees C to 4 degrees C, the fuel cold soaked in the garage at near freezing temperatures overnight, with no adverse results.
To start the engine when cold, it needs to be primed first with the injector solenoid powered, and the engine turned over three to four times with the decompressor selected. Then the engine starts first time.
When the engine is warm, or on a warm day, it only needs to be primed twice with fuel before starting.

The motorbike has been run in various traffic conditions, from very slow moving heavy traffic in the heat, to almost no traffic on the roads, and nearly full throttle - just speed limits and speed cameras preventing me from fully opening up the throttle! So far, no noticeable power loss or fuel starvation problems have been apparent.
This vegefuel blend also seems to work well with a 2 to 1 mix with diesel - 2 gallons of vegefuel blend with 1 gallon of diesel, if you are concerned about running the diesel engine only on vegefuel.

My next blend I tried, was initially cheaper to produce, but found it didn't run as well. Details of it to follow soon, and I'm currently using it in the motorbike now, having done just over 100 miles with this latest blend - well, I have to use it all up, after having made it!!

[coachgeo]

Thanks for the update.

Suggest asap do a compression check to get a base line. Do this at some measured interval.

Cold starting with cold running on a blend is said to be what causes most the issues. Watching compression will indicate wear before you "feel it" or see it in a drop in milage or speed obtained etc.

[Sibbo]

Thanks mate , interesting stuff . My problem is that new veg oil is expensive here, more expensive than dino BUT I have an excellent source of good clean used oil from my local sushi bar. So for me biodiesel is the way to go as even the best WVO has too much water in it and I've seen the results of that on a junked Mercedes diesel I pulled parts off for my Merc.

This is the way I'm going .http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/ecosyst ... am_new.htm
I'm about 95% finished , just looking for a better pump .My fuel will run about 50 cents Oz per litre.

[old clunker]

Thanks for the comments and info Sibbo, good luck with the biodiesel production. It's quite a challenge to get the water content really low in re-cycled oil made into biodiesel.
The use of very toxic chemicals used in biodiesel production put me off the re-cycled oil route. Enjoy the cheap biofuel in the end!

[XLerate]

I suggest extreme care when using 'White Spirits' also called 'Stoddard Solvent' It has been responsible for many deaths, when it was used as a common dry cleaning spotting solvent in the USA. Not used here any longer because of that. It took years for them to figure out what was causing all the clothing dry cleaner's disabilities & deaths. The MSDS is not clear on explaining the hazards.

I had a toxic industrial chemical exposure and I am permanently disabled, for life, thanks in part to White Spirit / Stoddard Solvent. Believe me, you would not want my life I live now. Other than the permanent brain damage, extreme liver damage, nervous system destroyed, skin destroyed, olfactory & taste wiped out, vision problems, strokes, TIA's, heart and circulatory problems, respiratory problems, the cancers are more than irritating. It would be nice to have my balance back. I'd also like to have my memory back too.

It isn't harmless....

[Sibbo]

Ouch ! That sounds just as bad as methanol fumes and I know they are extremely toxic .A remote air supply while using methanol and sodium hydroxide is the go.

I wish you well XLerate !! Good Luck .

[XLerate]

Thanks, Sibbo, I appreciate the kind thoughts.

Fortunately the good Lord has done wondrous things in my life, I would need hundreds of pages to describe, so that life is entirely manageable and huge improvements & healings have occurred. Because of what I've seen personally, in my own life, I do not hesitate to mention the Source of that healing! I'd be a liar if I didn't....

A friend of mine, known as Roger Ramjet on the NHRA drag racing circuit many years back, ran AA Top Fuel dragsters & was a front runner. Internet search has much to say about him plus pics. He had a blower explode on his FRONT engined fueler rail while running methanol! Lots of scars from the fuel. Other friends who played with 'fuel' have permanent neurological & dermatological problems.

Be careful guys!

[coachgeo]

Still suggest you Search the Peter Schur Blend. Very well researched info. and it had great success.

This will get you started
http://www.biodieseldiscussion.com/foru ... -3825.html

It is a very simple blend

[XLerate]

Read articles, didn't see anything addressing lubricity of these fuel compounds. Is it not necessary to provide other lubricant to fuel to protect injection pump? I know the low-sulphur stuff is doing lots of damage to pumps when no extra lubricant is added.

Also curious what micron rating you use for filtering your WVO? From what I've researched even 0.50 micron isn't guaranteed to be adequate to protect pump & engine components.

[coachgeo]

Read articles, didn't see anything addressing lubricity of these fuel compounds. Is it not necessary to provide other lubricant to fuel to protect injection pump? I know the low-sulphur stuff is doing lots of damage to pumps when no extra lubricant is added.

Also curious what micron rating you use for filtering your WVO? From what I've researched even 0.50 micron isn't guaranteed to be adequate to protect pump & engine components.

Not sure who your addressing in that post.

WVO's luberocity is dramatic. Even B5; ends up higher luberocity than straight diesel, and that is with a small % of WVO that's been cracked/chemically broke down further and seperated from some of it's lubricative components. AKA Biodiesel at 5% Per gal Diesel.

My guess is its not mentioned in WVO info often except luberocity discussions is cause its simply a mute point. Be hard as hell to end up with a fuel whose luberocity would not be better than sulfur diesel much less desulfured.

Filter rating.... there is so much info out there and much is missleading... suggest you go to best source I know of that is not over daunting on info.

burnveg.com

Most I know of at the most go 2 micron as a last ditch just in case filter on the way to the vehicle tank in their home fuel station. Think the standard diesel engine fuel filter is around 10 micron

PS- while there is no guarantee's in life.... only an idiot or a lawyer would say half micron isn't a guarantee. Most I know would say it's way overkill. Dieselcraft centrifuge seems to get to about 1 microne.

[old clunker]

I suggest extreme care when using 'White Spirits' also called 'Stoddard Solvent' It has been responsible for many deaths, when it was used as a common dry cleaning spotting solvent in the USA. Not used here any longer because of that. It took years for them to figure out what was causing all the clothing dry cleaner's disabilities & deaths. The MSDS is not clear on explaining the hazards.

I had a toxic industrial chemical exposure and I am permanently disabled, for life, thanks in part to White Spirit / Stoddard Solvent. Believe me, you would not want my life I live now. Other than the permanent brain damage, extreme liver damage, nervous system destroyed, skin destroyed, olfactory & taste wiped out, vision problems, strokes, TIA's, heart and circulatory problems, respiratory problems, the cancers are more than irritating. It would be nice to have my balance back. I'd also like to have my memory back too.

It isn't harmless....

Just to put the record straight regarding the use of White Spirit in my experiences, and using it in my vegefuel blend; I have used White Spirit for around 35 years now with no ill effects, always in well ventilated places. I've used it for paint brush cleaning, thinning oil based paints and cleaning paint and oil/greases off my hands. Naturally I've always washed my hands thoroughly in soap and water afterwards! I have even used it temporarily in an oil lamp, when it run out of paraffin!
All solvents should always be treated with respect, and as I stated in the main article, it's relatively safe to use especially in the quite small amounts used in the fuel blend - all solvents can be potentially hazardous. It just that it's far less hazardous than Methanol and the other catalyst chemicals used in biodiesel production from WVO, where a mask/respirator, industrial goggles and rubber gloves have to be worn when handling the chemicals. Skin contact and fume inhalation with these chemicals damages the body very quickly.

I'm sorry to hear of your over exposure XLerate, and what it had done to you. It's a lesson to handle all solvents carefully. Even Petrol/Gasolene is very toxic if not used properly, and it's available everywhere!

[Sibbo]

I suggest extreme care when using 'White Spirits' also called 'Stoddard Solvent' It has been responsible for many deaths, when it was used as a common dry cleaning spotting solvent in the USA. Not used here any longer because of that. It took years for them to figure out what was causing all the clothing dry cleaner's disabilities & deaths. The MSDS is not clear on explaining the hazards.

I had a toxic industrial chemical exposure and I am permanently disabled, for life, thanks in part to White Spirit / Stoddard Solvent. Believe me, you would not want my life I live now. Other than the permanent brain damage, extreme liver damage, nervous system destroyed, skin destroyed, olfactory & taste wiped out, vision problems, strokes, TIA's, heart and circulatory problems, respiratory problems, the cancers are more than irritating. It would be nice to have my balance back. I'd also like to have my memory back too.

It isn't harmless....

Just to put the record straight regarding the use of White Spirit in my experiences, and using it in my vegefuel blend; I have used White Spirit for around 35 years now with no ill effects, always in well ventilated places. I've used it for paint brush cleaning, thinning oil based paints and cleaning paint and oil/greases off my hands. Naturally I've always washed my hands thoroughly in soap and water afterwards! I have even used it temporarily in an oil lamp, when it run out of paraffin!
All solvents should always be treated with respect, and as I stated in the main article, it's relatively safe to use especially in the quite small amounts used in the fuel blend - all solvents can be potentially hazardous. It just that it's far less hazardous than Methanol and the other catalyst chemicals used in biodiesel production from WVO, where a mask/respirator, industrial goggles and rubber gloves have to be worn when handling the chemicals. Skin contact and fume inhalation with these chemicals damages the body very quickly.


Agreed , but with 40 litres of free WVO a week available to me and the cheapest supermarket veg oil being around $3.80 a litre it's the only way for me to go, especially as my 4 wheeled vehicles are a Merc 240D and A diesel Toyota Hilux .
I'm sorry to hear of your over exposure XLerate, and what it had done to you. It's a lesson to handle all solvents carefully. Even Petrol/Gasolene is very toxic if not used properly, and it's available everywhere!

[old clunker]

My latest 'vegefuel' news, as promised......
After the spell of snow and ice in London, and temperatures at around -8C at night, which made the untreated and unblended vegetable oil turn into almost the consistency of grease! The 'vegefuel' blend in the fuel tank had not thickened, and was still quite fluid.
At last I can go out again on the motorbike, and use up the last of my current vegetable/Diesel fuel blend.

With the warmer weather, I've clocked up some more miles this week, and just have 7 miles left to do, to complete the 150 miles on the one gallon batch of my latest 'vegefuel'.
The motorbike was left stored for two months in the unheated garage, and after turning the engine over 5 times with the fuel solenoid powered, the engine started first time! Can't be bad!

This batch of fuel was found to provide the engine with a bit less power, though the engine idles well and still runs smoothly (for a diesel!) when revved. The bike 'topped out' at 52 to 54 mph, depending on wind and road conditions, with the throttle at maximum. So a bit less than the expected 60 to 62 mph on Diesel. Fuel consumption is still good though.

So this latest vegetable oil blend is better than nothing, if you haven't got access to White Spirit or Turps. And is cheaper than just running on straight Diesel.

The blend is as follows:
At the time, Petrol (Gasolene) was a bit cheaper than White Spirit, so I decided to give it a go.
I used 460 ml (millilitres) of petrol to 4 litres of vegetable oil. Then for cleaner burning, and to stabilise the fuel, I added about 8 ml of the Longma V Plus7 fuel additive again.
This gives me 1 gallon of the 'vegefuel' blend.

I found that the petrol added, affected the fuel burning rate, and seemed to change the ignition timing, causing the engine not to idle smoothly anymore. I had to hold the throttle open a bit to keep the engine idling. When I opened the throttle up quickly, the engine revs and power would temporarily reduce, and could stall the engine. The engine did start well on this blend though, and stayed the same viscosity as Diesel in cold weather with temperatures down to - 6 degrees C (21 degrees F).
I managed to ride the bike to the nearest Petrol station, where I filled up with 1 gallon of Diesel.
With this 1 to 1 ratio of vegetable oil blend and Diesel, the engine ran fine again, with no more idling and throttle problems.
I've now done 143 miles on this blend, and the bike runs well, despite it's top speed limitations with this fuel.
So it looks like a viable alternative, if you have got no other choice, when it's mixed with Diesel.

I've now been running the engine for over 420 miles now on mainly vegetable oil blends, with no engine problems so far.

My third and final blend will be with some different vegetable oils, including Rapeseed, which is meant to be the best oil for Diesel engines, and the solvent will be bio-Ethanol.

I'll keep you informed of my results eventually!

[coachgeo]

suggest you start doing compression test and keeping a log. You can head off problems by noticing lowered compression by coking. Compression gauge will catch that long before seat of your pants and/or before identifiable reduced engine performance.

If you do not have a baseline to work with..... go back to straight diesel for awhile. Run alot of fuel cleaner thru it. Consider a carbon/coke cleaning via a fine water mist out of a squirt bottle perpindicular to air flow into engine. Better yet a water/isopropal alcohol mist. BTW your hands going to get tired.... to do this right takes more than one bottle full of water. This will do a lot to clean carbon/coke from engine. Then do some compression checks to get a baseline.

some info on this mist method

http://www.google.com/search?q=cleaning ... LL_enUS383

[coachgeo]

Speaking of decarbonizing engine here is one I had not heard of before

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

DECARBONIZING ENGINE BY OXYGEN PROCESS.
The engine can be decarbonized without removing head by making use of the oxygen process. A cylinder of compressed oxygen is necessary, also a strong flexible tube with a metallic nozzle of suitable length and shape to allow it to be inserted through the sparking plug holes, and to be turned round inside the head so that the stream of oxygen can be directed on to every part of the combustion chamber and piston top. A piece of 1/4 in. external diameter copper pipe, curved about 3 inches from its end, is suitable.
First turn off the tap on Autovac (the fuel pump) controlling supply of petrol to carburetter, and run engine until carburetter is quite dry. Remove bonnet completely by lifting away from radiator and from clip on clash. Protect wings and dash with suitable coverings, as the carbon leaves the cylinders in the form of burning granules.
Next rotate the engine until the exhaust valve of. No. 4 cylinder (farthest from radiator) is just closing. (The position of exhaust valve can be seen through sparking plug hole.) The piston of No. 1 cylinder will now be approaching top dead centre, and, when exactly at top of stroke, No. 1 cylinder will be ready for decarbonizing.
Now turn on oxygen until a fairly powerful stream emerges from nozzle of pipe, and direct this stream at sparking plug hole for 30 secs. Then touch edge of sparking plug hole with a lighted taper, and the carbon will immediately catch fire. Gradually work the nozzle all round the interior of the combustion chamber. and on to piston head taking great care not to allow it to remain in any one position for more than a moment, until no more carbon emerges. During this process, the operator should stand well out of the path of the burning carbon.
When no more carbon emerges, the oxygen should be turned off, and a stream of compressed air should be directed into the combustion chamber just cleaned to remove any fragments. (A few strokes from a powerful tyre pump will accomplish this if no compressed air is available).
To prepare No. 2 cylinder for decarbonizing, turn engine until exhaust valve of No. 3 cylinder is just closing, and set piston of No. 2 cylinder on top dead centre, proceeding as before. To prepare No. 3 cylinder, set piston on t.d.c. with exhaust valve of No. 2 cylinder just closing. To prepare No. 4 cylinder ?. etc. ?
The entire operation can be carried out inside of 30 minutes and a 10 cu. ft. cylinder of oxygen should be sufficient for one engine.

[old clunker]

I managed to do the last seven miles this week, and 'Clunkie' is still running well! Luckily I was near home, when the engine ran out of fuel, and I had to switch to reserve.
I checked the engine oil level when I got back home, and it is fine, with no apparent oil use or leaks. Have to do an engine oil change in the next 300 miles approx. So far the engine has done 776 miles from new, with the majority now done running on my 'vegefuel'. The engine compression is still almost 'ankle breaking' when I have tried to kick start it, or turn it over. In fact I have only managed once to kick start it successfully, and valuing my ankles in one piece, I now rely on the electric start!!! Maybe one day, the engine will free up enough, to kick start relatively easily. I can also rely on my 'rope pull start' as well!

After this, I decided to try my latest vegetable oil blend no.3, which is a vegetable oil and bio-ethanol mix, including the Longma VPlus7 fuel additive. It's the 'greenest' and most environmental of the blends, with the ethanol produced from waste plant material. After the surprise of the oil going milky and sort of emusifying, the initial experience was good when I put it into the tank. The motorbike started and idled well, and produces far less smoke. When the engine is warm, it hardly smokes at all and 'Clunkie's' exhaust smells like a 'chippie!' now that all traces of the 'dino' diesel have been used up.
Today, I went for a 12 mile run with the blend and found that some of the the ethanol had slightly separated from the oil mix, so I shook the fuel tank a bit before setting off. The normal bike running vibrations then mix the blend up well.
It ran better and smoother than blend no.2, the petrol (gasolene) one, but after a while not so smooth at the top end, and the engine idle could go a bit lumpy. Got the bike to run up to 51 mph though, with hardly any smoke behind - this latest blend is really a lot cleaner! It looks and feels like the ethanol doesn't seem to mix up evenly enough, and produces some irregular tiny droplets in solution, which can burn eratically when injected into the cylinder.
When I got home, after suffering quite a bit of 'car crazy' traffic on the local roads! I wasn't happy with the idling, so I decided to make up a gallon of my first blend - the White Spirit mix. Put it in the tank, and after running the engine for a while, tweaked the idle setting a bit, and it's back to business as usual, with the bike idling and running and revving really well. So it looks like it's best to mix the two fuel blends together, if you want to totally avoid using diesel.

I've now got lots of miles to cover to test this latest 'vegefuel' blend, so I'll keep you posted, when I've managed to use it all up!

[mark_in_manchester]

Regarding the discussion of toxicity of White Spirit upthread - the solvent referred to in context of dry cleaning sounds rather more like Carbon Tetrachloride to me, as opposed to what we use in UK for cleaning gloss paint from paint brushes. We used to be able to buy carbon tet as 'Dab it off' for removing oil stains from clothing (it worked really, really well...and smelt just like the dry-cleaning machine at the back of the local lauderette) and my dad used to 'borrow' a jam jar full from the degreasing area of the engineering works where he was a turner, so we'd not have to buy it. Now it's a super-controlled substance, and I think is regarded amongst other things as a carcinogen. Whereas white spirit is still available by the litre in any ironmonger (hardware store) with the odd warning on the label about causing skin dryness.

Here we go - 2l container - toxic to aquatic organisms. No sh*t, Sherlock...

[coachgeo]

millky makes since. Have heard of few folk having problems with ethinol blends. Not cause of the ethinol but cause of water. (thus the milky). True race care quality ethinol may not an issue. Average ethinol can be suspect..... and same issues with Gasohol.

Just my .02

[old clunker]

millky makes since. Have heard of few folk having problems with ethinol blends. Not cause of the ethinol but cause of water. (thus the milky). True race care quality ethinol may not an issue. Average ethinol can be suspect..... and same issues with Gasohol.

Just my .02

Thanks for your comments coachgeo, the type of ethanol I'm experimenting with at the moment, is 95% pure with approx 4% water and maybe 1% Bitrex - to stop people drinking it!!! since it is possibly 'drinkable ethanol' for the desperate! and by law, a chemical has to be added to it, to try to make the ethanol undrinkable, for tax purposes.

The small water content - about 40 ml per litre, seems to make the vegetable oil milky, but from reading some German experimenter's 'vegefuel' experiences, the addition of small amounts of water to 'vegefuel' can help reduce smoke emissions, and apparently allow the diesel engine to run cleaner.
From my experiences, the ethanol/vegetable oil mix on it's own with the water content, doesn't burn evenly enough and has to be mixed with my other blend.

So far I have clocked up 48 miles this week on the latest blend, and it seems to be ok. Just have many more miles to do......

[coachgeo]

....The small water content - about 40 ml per litre, seems to make the vegetable oil milky, but from reading some German experimenter's 'vegefuel' experiences, the addition of small amounts of water to 'vegefuel' can help reduce smoke emissions, and apparently allow the diesel engine to run cleaner.....

You sure they were not talking about Fumigated/Injected water into the air charge? Thats different than it mixed in the fuel. If in the fuil would be interesting to see long term results of there usage.

Water yes can have some advantages on the combustion end thus why some do water injection. In the fuel..... they are noted dissadvantages... thus why diesel filters offer some water blocking capabilities. ..... the disadvantages are actually in the IP and injectors of the type engines like we use and many other diesels these days. The water causes damage via Cavitation (implosion) of the water molecules causing pits etc to the metal of internal surfaces of the IP in areas the H20 will get highly pressurized.... aka IP plungers and the cylinders they ride in and other highly pressurized areas past that point like Inectors

[old clunker]

From what I read Coach, they didn't use water injection - just added small amounts of water to the fuel mix. Luckily for me the water content is very low, 40 ml per 4 litres of vegetable oil mix (nearly a gallon) so it should have very little effect on the pump and injector, though I will be closely monitoring the situation. The water content effect has been reduced even less, by adding one gallon of my White Spirit vegetable oil blend, which has no water content.

It's very difficult here commercially to get 100% ethanol at a reasonable price. The best available is 95%, which is what I'm experimenting with.

[old clunker]

Just keeping people informed what is happening at the moment, and I promised to report both the good and the bad. The experiment has come to a halt for now, as just over a week ago the motorbike wouldn't start, after running ok the previous day. The engine has now done 854 miles from new.
I had previously drained off what was left of the bio-ethanol mix, as I wasn't satisfied with the performance, and went back to the original White Spirit blend.

On investigation, I checked the fuel injector, and found it clogged up, most likely from the uneven mix of the bio-ethanol and vegetable oil.
Managed to get a replacement correct injector in the end, and connected it up, and the spray pattern appears ok. Now I found that I have little engine compression, and with further engine investigation and strip down, it looks like the copper cylinder head gasket has blown. So it looks like there is more than one problem, and maybe the fuel pump isn't also supplying enough pressure, but that will be investigated last.
Just my luck that I found this out during the Easter holidays! and I can't order any replacement spares until tomorrow.
I'll also have a chat with with the man from Direct Equipment spares, about the most likely fixes for this problem - I think is called Jeremy? Who has been very helpful and knowledgeable so far, regarding diesel engine spares.

I'll be detailing the experiences and the (hopeful!) fixes for the Yanmar clone 186F engine in the Engine section posts.

The use of Bio-ethanol in a small diesel engine is definitely not recommended from my experiences, as it doesn't go into solution with the vegetable oil properly, and caused uneven burning of the fuel in the cylinder. Well, someone had to test this out for real!!

So that's the end of my vegetable oil based fuel project, and actual engine running experiments for the time being.

[coachgeo]

Do you have geared tranny or CVT?

[old clunker]

It's the primitive but workable four speed Enfield gearbox coachgeo, and the kickstart still works ok! Just there's a big leak in the engine somewhere!
I'll be chasing up the engine spares required today.

Managed to get hold of the Direct Equipment sales man this morning, and he's sure that it's only a compression problem, and the copper head gasket has to be replaced. If there was a pump fuel supply problem, even with only a very small amount of fuel getting through from the fuel pump, the diesel engine would try to start.
I've ordered two copper gaskets, and a rocker cover gasket, since it looks like if you pull the engine apart, you have to replace the head gasket each time, otherwise correct engine compression isn't guaranteed. So hopefully a relatively cheap, but time consuming engine fix, when the spares arrive in a couple of days.

[gavinfdavies]

howdy. Am I right in thinking you're running one of Henry Price's 456cc yanclones? Mine's in for a new engine at present, but when it's back I'm looking at trying the vegoil route.

re veg oil: try your local cash and carry - mine does 20 lt KTC oil in plastic tubs at £19 a pop, so a little cheaper than asda.

re blends: I've heard that 10% petrol (so 1:9) and 0.1% vegi boost is the way to go. The latter gives a boost of about 6-8 cetane points. This seems similar to your second blend, just with less petrol.

Since I've also got oil fired heating, I'm also going to try veg oil + 28sec kerosene + vegiboost, but I'm unsure of the ratio. Any ideas?

[old clunker]

Hello gavindavies, my Enfield is a 406cc' Yanclone' - and in a different engine post, we've had a discussion about the 456cc diesel engine, and the lack of feedback/experiences with the larger capacity engine.

With buying cheap vegetable oil in bulk, I don't have any cash and carry that's cheaper than the supermarkets around me, 99p/litre seems to be the cheapest I can get it.

If you look at my previous 'vegeblend' posts regarding using petrol mixed with vegetable oil, and in real life experiments, I didn't find that it worked well enough in small diesel engines, had to be mixed with diesel 1:1, and the blend has to be a similar viscosity to diesel, otherwise the fuel pump and injector don't work properly.
Other petrol blends discussed, appear to be for car diesel engines only. It's not a problem so much with car diesel injectors, as they are larger, more robust and run at higher pressures, and the engines are less fussy about fuel viscosity. Plus petrol is now getting too expensive a solvent now!!!
My proportions are worked out to make the 'vegefuel' as similar to diesel, regarding viscosity (thickness), any thinner or thicker blend, and the diesel engine doesn't work properly or as efficiently.

With the kerosene blending, we've also discussed kerosene as well in another post! Since it's similar to paraffin, possibly 25% mix with vegetable oil? The main thing is to have a sample of diesel to hand, to compare the final viscosity of the blend. When it's similar, it should be good enough.
Have fun experimenting!.........

[gavinfdavies]

you seemed to have more luck with white spirit as a thinner? And what do you mean petrol's an expensive thinner? It's no worse than white spirit. The best I've found online is £33 for 25 litres plus delivery.

I have a 1500 litre tank for 28sec kersene in the back garden, and it costs me 60p a litre! Sod using the kero to thin the veg oil, I'm going to use the veg oil to fix the kero!

As for the bigger bore engine, doesn't seem much more powerful than the little one. they claim 13bhp, but that's peak. Continuous is about 10-11.

I feel a turbo coming on...

[XLerate]

Just want to say thanks, OC, for being bold enough to step into the darkness and experiment, then to cast light for others to see! It's guys like you, willing to take a chance, that fuels progress in this screwy world. Regardless of your unfortunate outcome it was a job very well done and I compliment you! I truly mean that, not just a wax & buff job here. Well done!

[old clunker]

Thanks for that XLerate, I'm just passing on my ideas and experiences, so that both myself and everyone who is interested in alternative fuels can hopefully benefit.

The new cylinder head gasket has improved the engine compression a bit, but now according to the Yanmar PDF manual fault finding list, the piston and rings have to be looked at to get the compression back to normal. It looks like a pressure leak in the engine crankcase.
That's a job to be done when I have a bit more time and patience eventually!!