2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

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SamM
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2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:57 am

EDIT: This motorcycle project has changed so much, that I had to go back and edit out a bunch of old information. Thanks for your continued patince as I sort it all out.

This is the official build thread for my 2008 Kawasaki KLR diesel powered dualsport motorcycle. My wife bought this bike for me in December 2007, as a Christmas present. It has been through a couple of different variations from a touring bike with Pelican hardbags to a stripped and lightened trailbike. My diesel project bike has been stripped of the original gasoline engine and all of it's stock parts. Many of the stock components will not be reused. As the design evolves I will post updates.

The first picture that I will post is the motorcycle that was the original inspiration for my bike. When I first saw this motorcycle I knew I had to replicate it for myself. As I have always wanted a diesel powered motorcycle. I will post both pictures that I have to show each side of the bike. This bike has a 10hp diesel engine and a Series 40 & 40D CVT. The owner reports that it is capable of 65mph topspeeds. I have no way of knowing what is even possible until I finish and test my version.

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My diesel project bike has been stripped of the original gasoline engine and all of it's stock parts. The Diesel KLR456, which I will call it from now on, will use a 2007 KLR swingarm and rear brake parts. I may have to convert the motorcycle to a right-side chain final drive. The wheel will be turned around and this appears to be fairly easy. I may need a few custom parts but nothing really expensive. When finished, it will look a great deal like the motorcycle pictured above but will differ at the rear. It will have a 2008 rear subframe, side panels and rear fender. It will use inverted forks from a 2008 KX450F. The inverted forks will be much ligher than a stock KLR, so the difference in weight for the diesel project bike should be considerable. An add-on dualsport wiring harness from ProCycle will also be used. The next pictures are of what I have to date. The frame needs to be lengthened in the front section in order for the diesel engine to fit. New downtubes will be fabbed from 1" DOM tubing.

Thanks for looking! Enjoy the pictures! Post any thoughts! :D

SamM

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Last edited by SamM on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by coachgeo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:26 am

Saw in a description of a chopper Diesel bike where the fellow added to a spot where he had to stretch the frame, the abilty to unbolt there for easy remove of engine for working on it.

Something to think about since your cutting things up and fabricating new.

Im thinking on my Tiger adding a basket to the frame that is solid (but removable for easy engine access similar to described above) The Tiger uses the engine as a frame member so their is not basket. Only reason Im thinking that is one; as described above... easy access to engine, and two, the main one, then I can use rubber / neopreme or something in that range to mount the engine thusly ending with the engine's vibration isolated somewhat from everything else. Looking closely at existing after market engine gaurds etc with the idea of just fabricating that right into the basket.

to do this I assume my tranny should get a solid mount to frame and the belt drive between the engine and tranny a tensioner to take up slack caused by movement of the engine.

Plan is an Ultima and 3" belt drive; which I have now... butttttttt... still not sure if I should swap that out for a CVT and reduce one complexity in riding a bike. Would think the Tensioner idea should work for that belt just as well though.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by dieselbikin » Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:15 am

I have a "basket" on my bike. I like it OK, but I will eventually put in solid tubing so after removing the fuel tank the engine will simply slide out sideways. Not having to remove/replace the four half inch bolts and realign the basket to remove the engine will be nice. Besides, after testing was completed it had little need to remove the engine. Definitely consider access to maintenance items. That is my two cents.
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SamM
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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:23 pm

My new 13hp Winsun air-cooled single cylinder diesel engine has arrived. I should have the bike rolling again shortly. After that happens the frame will be mocked up. I've decided to use 1" square tubing for the lower section of the frame. Everything will need to be straight, true and square before the final welding is done on the frame.

SamM

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Last edited by SamM on Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:24 am

First trial fitment of the engine into the frame. Still lots to do.

SamM

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki Diesel KLR456

Post by SamM » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:54 am

Here's another short update on my project. I've decided to use the stock forks from my gas-powered 2008 KLR650 daily driver pictured below. I used this bike to trial fit the 2007 KLR swingarm that will be used on my Diesel KLR456. You'll notice that the rear wheel has been flipped and the drive sprocket is now on the rightside of the motorcycle. I've also decided to use 1" round tubing for the new frame section. New tubing will be bent for the project soon. I've also trial fit the SW-Motch centerstand that was purchased for the diesel bike.

SamM

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Last edited by SamM on Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by coachgeo » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:29 pm

thanx for the update.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:08 am

Coachgeo,
I got a little crazy when I started chopping up my original '08 KLR650 frame. Wish I would have thought it through a little more before doing all the cutting. :roll: Oh well, I have another frame now, so it's all good. The engine is here and things should start moving forward soon.

SamM
Last edited by SamM on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by focodiesel » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:36 pm

any updates?

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:11 pm

Not really! I'm still gathering parts. I'm selling parts almost daily but there is still much more to sell and to buy. I'm bidding on a new Galfer rotor for the USD forks and I also need to buy a new Galfer KLR rear rotor. It's all about money right now. Most of what I still need will be purchased after the Christmas rush is over.

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Last edited by SamM on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:17 pm

Thanks to some help from a few people here, I recently found a small turbocharger for my diesel KLR project. I may actually try going that route on this motorcycle. It looks very interesting to me. We may be able to squeeze a few more ponies out of the 456cc engine. Anyone know anything about propane injection?

Thanks for any help!

SamM

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by focodiesel » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:58 pm

The only thing I know about propane is what I've read about on trucks. Basically it's just adding more fuel. I believe if it's not set up properly it can blow your engine pretty easily. The tricky part is setting it up so when you increase throttle, the propane amount increases. I think a safer option, if you go turbo route, is water/methanol, which would let you run more boost, lower egt's, and the water/meth gives slight gains on it's own. This is all knowledge from large diesels though. Would it be practical with a small single? I don't know. If you go turbo, you will be limited by head bolts, gasket, ect..because naturally aspirated diesels have higher compression ratio's than a factory turbo engine.

Also something to watch is high egt's. With an air cooled motor, engine heat could be a concern. If you go turbo, you should get an pyrometer to watch your temps.
Last edited by focodiesel on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by TedV » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:27 pm

propane:
Is the engine indirect injection or direct injection? The IDI engines, ones with the precup chambers, don't seem to like propane injection as in melting and blowing things up. The direct injection llike the big trucks, the propane acts as a catalist imporving the burn of the diesel and since there is extra O2 the propane adds to the power. Also you will need a DOT approved tank to hold the propane, or don't get caught.

water/meth injection will cool the burn, careful you don't shoot too much in there. the O2 the water/meth replaces (only so much volume can get in the combustion chamber) will steam clean the cylinders. It will cool the intake charge giving maybe a little more density of O2 but at the same time the water displaces some O2, ultimately making diesel run hottter- more fuel diesel burns hotter, then when water gets turned to steam it takes heat out of the combstion, the steam expanding will give more power. Also if there is extra O2 the meth will burn giving more power if it doesn't detonate before the diesel combusts. the steam will get around your rings and if your oil isn't hot enough it will condence in the crank case oil, needed more frequent oil changes. Too much water can prevent the combustion or even hydro lock the motor. I think it's too much hassle over a properly done intercooler setup and proper tuned fuel pump.

disclamor, I hammered all that out while eating a burger for lunch. your results may vary. But I autocross an ancient 1.6L VW turbo diesel and suprise the heck out of people on what an old diesel will do.

::edit:: I also agree on the EGT pyrometer and gage. more fuel = hotter, too much fuel = melted things. If you don't touch fuel and add turbo it will have less exhaust smoke. Think VW ecodiesel. yeah, I'm a VW nut :roll: :lol:

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by toyotaracer9 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:04 am

The nozzle on a water/meth injection kit would be so small , you wouldnt be able to keep it clear of tiny particles . I have one on my wifes scion TC that I turboed and the nozzle for 200-250 hp was hard to keep from plugging .
If it isn't broken , break it .

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by pietenpol2002 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:33 am

Mr. Sharkey's article always makes for some interesting reading with regard to LP fumigation.

http://www.mrsharkey.com/lpg.htm
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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by coachgeo » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:14 pm

updates??

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:43 pm

Sorry that I haven't posted anything for awhile. I have been sidetracked with another project. The Diesel KLR456 will start back up after the other project is finished. Here's the other project. The new engine is being checked in the Diesel KLR frame, just to see if it will fit. You'll notice that the Diesel KLR frame now has a 1985 KLR600 aluminum subframe. This will remove a few more pounds which is important when you only have 13hp.

SamM

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:58 am

Just wanted to mention that we are still going to build this bike. There is another project taking up all my time right now. Here's a picture of the frame and new KLR600 aluminum subframe. Keeping the bike lighter than a standard KLR is now the #1 priority. The bike will no longer have foot controls. The brakes will be controled with hand levers on the handlebars. All the extra brackets have been removed from the frame. New subframe mounts will be added for the new subframe.

Pretty much everything else is here and ready to go. The bike has undergone quite a few design changes. It's been hard trying to figure out the best way to go with it. I'm sure a few more things will change before we get around to building it.

SamM

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Last edited by SamM on Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Wed May 11, 2011 8:40 pm


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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by Kristof » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:34 am

Please continue to update. I know this is old, but I really want to know, because I am in love with the idea of diesel KLR650.

Top speed? MPG? Did you add the turbo? So many questions! :D

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:33 am

Never bought the turbocharger. The project has basically been put on hold for now. I still have everything but there are more important projects, right now.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by Kristof » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:32 am

Ah, the suspense is killing me.

What could be more important than a diesel KLR 650? (You don't have to answer that, I am just being enthusiastic)

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by Kristof » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:28 am

You think you could fit a v twin Punsun in there? 8)

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:37 pm

Ok, I'm starting this project back up again. I have decided to ditch the plan of using a CVT transmission in my Diesel KLR. My other KLR project is being parted out. Many of the KLR parts from that project will be used on the Diesel KLR. I will post a picture of the bike that I am now using as the basis for the Diesel KLR. Many of the parts shown will be used on the new Diesel. A new 5.5 gal IMS fuel tank will be purchased for this project. Making this bike as light as possible is my #1 goal. The engine only makes 13hp, so every ounce will be important.

EDIT: I have gone back to the drawing board with this project. I was sidelined by the purchase of a Ural Sahara, which did not work out so well. All my other projects are gone. This is the only bike that I am currently working on. There is nothing else just the Diesel KLR. The Ural has been sold.

SamM
Last edited by SamM on Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:41 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by coachgeo » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:49 pm

exciting!!!

Look forward to updates!

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by dethmachinefab » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:06 am

I have a new bdl clutch/primary drive for a harley trans i did not use if you are interested, with a nice discount. Good to see you building!

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:06 am

The Harley transmission plan has been scraped. This is currently my one and only project. I hope to have a roller within a month. The frame tubes have been bent and I need to purchase a rear shock, a fuel tank, steel tubing and a rear pivot bolt. The RICOR shock is crap. Not sure what happened to it but it's leaking fluid. A Progressive shock will replace it. I plan to reinforce the frame and stretch it 1 or 2" at the most. This will give me extra room to fit the inverted fork and to gain more steering lock.

I'm not sure if the bike will require the chain drive to be moved the the right side or not.

SamM

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by coachgeo » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:37 am

SamM wrote:The Harley transmission plan has been scraped. ...
so your going with what tranny now?

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by SamM » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:47 am

Probably back to the CVT. How is your steamer coming along?

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Re: 2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Dualsport Project

Post by dieseltech » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:01 pm

SamM wrote:Anyone know anything about propane injection?
I don't know if you're still interested in that, but I do have some experience with propane (LPG) injection on diesels.

For one, regardless of engine type (DI/IDI), it enormously improves cold starting, although the air/fuel ratio needs to be within a relatively narrow range for that to work AT ALL. My theory on this is that the LPG preignites due to the compression and hot glow plug surface, and this greatly raises the in-cylinder temperature, so that when the diesel is injected almost immediately afterwards, it ignites far more easily.

In fact I use a small 0.6L LPG bottle from a blowtorch, hooked up to a kitchen stove regulator and dedicated LPG solenoid valve (hooked up to a pushbutton on the dash), and a nozzle for metering, in my own 1.7L IDI car.
I installed the whole system shortly before the winter and the bottle still hasn't run out. About 3 seconds of flow are needed before starting to fill the huge intake manifold/resonator volume. Then I hit the starter and LPG flow at the same time - the nozzle was carefully adjusted for that to work optimally - and it starts in 1 to 3 seconds of cranking. Without the LPG it takes at least 30s of cranking to start in the winter (lots of cylinder wear and poor compression), so I think you can draw your own conclusions.

As for power enhancement - yes, it CAN be made to work in an IDI diesel (and yes I did try that out myself), but you can only get maybe 10-15% power gain at most, any more and you get severe preignition which will rapidly kill the pistons and rings - some preignition is OK in a diesel, as it happens during normal operation anyway - just not too much.

VAST gains can be had in DI diesels though - and incidentally, your Punsun/Winsun is DI. By "vast" I mean at least 25-30% increase, if you can set up both the diesel injection and the gas feed correctly. Remachining the pistons or using a thicker head gasket to reduce compression allows the gas % (and thus power gain) to be upped somewhat further still, but at the cost of cold starting performance.
Also if you use a turbo then you will need to reduce the gas % somewhat, depending on your intercooling efficiency.

HOWEVER there is a catch: to avoid wasting your LPG you need a setup which will only feed the gas when the IP rack is close to, or at, the full delivery position. Especially at idle most of the LPG would just escape out the exhaust unburned and only waste your money.

And this gets me to the major point: on a bike the only feasible setup (size and weight wise) is to feed the LIQUID propane/LPG through a fixed nozzle and solenoid valve (forget about the vapor phase - the tank will freeze extremely rapidly). In this case you need to somehow prevent activating the flow before some RPM threshold is reached, or the LPG/air mixture will be too rich and either cause severe preignition, or flood and stall the engine outright (yes it can in fact be done!).
The performance will be unfortunately quite variable depending on the ambient temperature, but that is the cost of simplicity. Still if you do it right it the power gain will far exceed the performance loss due to the extra weight.
On a car you have much more room to work with, and a liquid cooling loop so you can use a proper heated LPG reducer, so you have a gas supply at a stable pressure. But on an air cooled bike you can have none of that.

Also do keep in mind that with an optimally tuned setup, you will be burning (very) roughly as much LPG as diesel, so keep that in mind when considering the tank size. Perhaps it would be better to use it as a "poor man's nitro" when the situation calls for higher performance, and leave it off for normal cruising - you could get away with a much smaller tank.

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