Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

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Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:06 pm

Any of the Hatzfield owners can comment on how to mate the primary case to the engine? The petrol engine has the correspondig 3 holes, but they are not on the Hatz. Should I make a spacer, or drill additional holes in the inner casing?

I have taken a look at the pictures from the Altmann build, but I can't make out how he has joined the two.
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:53 am

Things are starting to look bright. Thanks to a great tip of a forum member, I was introduced to the world of taperlock bush/sprocket. Today I picked up a sprocket and a bush for my 1" axle without keyway. Apparently it's rated for 139Nm of torque (I forgot the exact number :roll: )

Should be plenty for the 26Nm Hatz.
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hatzsprocket 007-kl.JPG
hatzsprocket 003-kl.JPG
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:20 am

If I remember correctly Altmann used a 20mm alloy spacer between the motor and the inner primary, this would allow for onse set of holes to match the motor and an opposite set to match the chaincase.

I can't recall if the Sommer version uses a spacer or not, if you can wait 'till the UK dieselbike rally I'll take a look and ask Yochen.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:48 am

Yes, I have seen this on his website. First I'm going to make a subframe, bolt the gearbox to it and put the engine on there, to testfit the components with the inner primary. I guess it should be fairly obvious what will be missing and what the size of a spacer should be. I was confused by the images since there where no holes for the inner primary, but I guess he drilled them with the case mounted and never took a picture again?

Although that's not practical because he had the spacer painted. Ah well... I just hope it will be a snug fit, since the I can't use the far end of the axle; it's threaded :(
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:55 am

Nanko has taken a piece of alu and created a piece that autocenters on the Hatz, and also has a (smaller) outerring to autocenter the Enfield inner primary. Marvelous piece of engineering. Since I want to use the original primary case it's not 20mm, but more in the vicinity of 5mm.

Picture will follow later. (I forgot the camera :roll: ) I think the English term would be "flanged spacer" except that the bottom side is also flanged. Well, you get my point...
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:45 am

If we could return for a moment to the pics posted earlier in this thread. There is the reference to a taperlock bushing being used, presumably on a 1" shaft that does not have a keyway. I wonder whether there is confusion between a taperlock bushing and a keyless bushing. The picture is of a traditional taperlock bushing typically used with a keyed shaft. It relies on the key for it's rated function and as such, is very different than a keyless bushing that relies on extreme clamping pressures in the absence of a key. If I understand correctly what I've researched, a taperlock bush will not generate sufficient clamping pressures for this application.

I have the generator engine which also has a keyless crankshaft, but more than sufficient shaft length to utilize a keyless bushing. I'm using a Fenner Trantorque bush for my build which is rated well in excess of the torque our little singles produce. Sadly, they're about 10 times the cost of a taperlock, however they're often readily available on Ebay for a fraction of their original cost. Mine was complicated by the fact that it has a 26MM crankshaft, just in excess of 1" and beyond the range of either a 1" or 25" keyless bushing. But easily solved with the addition of a split intermediary bushing.

Or, perhaps someone from the power transmission industry can help us better understand this.

Ron
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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:26 am

Hi Ron, I wouldn't know I will look into this, thanks. If I recall correctly, using the taper as-is, it would still be rated for well over 100Nm. So I'm inclined to say a 25Nm Hatz will not exceed this.
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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:40 am

Taperlock bush has ratings for keyless use.

In the 1210 1" bush it's rated at 142Nm Fenner product code 019C0100.

The tricky bit is on the longer tapershaft crank ends used for generators is that the 1" section is very short before it's reduced to a narrower parallel section and finally a taper.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:05 am

Diesel Dave wrote: In the 1210 1" bush it's rated at 142Nm Fenner product code 019C0100.
Yes, I think mine is 1210, but I would have to look up the receipt. I can find 140Nm for 1210 24mm keyless so I guess that 142Nm for 25.4 would be about right. Properly used they can supposedly handle 407Nm.
The tricky bit is on the longer tapershaft crank ends used for generators is that the 1" section is very short before it's reduced to a narrower parallel section and finally a taper.
I can't decypher this :D Lets just hope that it means that for my application I am in the clear.
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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:13 am

Thanks for the update gentlemen and for sharing your knowledge. I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that a standard taperlock could exert that much clamping pressure. Now perhaps I can find a 26mm taperlock bushing.

And yours is a 1210. You can see the stamp in the picture.

Thanks,
Ron
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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:44 pm

I got my figures from a Belgian site, maybe they are of use to you:

http://www.gallon.be/n_041611.htm

edit: I don't think 26mm exists in Taperlock(tm) land. http://www.austechindustrial.com.au/pdf ... metric.pdf
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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:10 pm

You might be able to bore out a 1" version or it might fit directly as they allow some tollerance.

Are you sure the shaft is 26mm and not 1" = 25.4mm?

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:23 pm

That was my fear - that 26mm didn't exist in a taperlock either. Numerous listings of the generator engine show the crank as being 26mm, which is what my calipers shows. And a 1" bushing clearly doesn't come close to sliding on. It seems like it should at 25.4mm, but it doesn't. Also, 26mm is beyond the range of what the 25mm keyless bushing can tolerate. I didn't think about a 1" taperlock accommodating 26mm. I'll call one of the manufacturers and inquire as to what the range is. Once again, thanks for the feedback.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:28 pm

These guys will machine a bush to whatever dimensions you need:

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Taper-lock-bushes/

No connection with the company - just found them online.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:33 pm

Magnificent find Dave! Prices look pretty friendly as well.
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.

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Re: Mating enfield primary case to Hatz engine 1B40

Post by Sphere » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Here are some pictures of the modest piece of machined aluminium (A Nanko original) that will make my life much easier. It is 5mm thick (if that) and has all the bolts countersunk. As a result, mating the Enfield primary to the Hatz engine is a breeze and always dead center.
Attachments
subframegbmockupls.jpg
subframegbmockuptop.jpg
'92 Enfield + Hatz 1B40: street legal, weld up stainless exhaust, check engine rpm and change final drive sprocket.

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