Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Engine's, injection, valve's, timing, crank's etc..

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Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:58 pm

Dear Folks,
The breaking down of the 13 HP winsun was a reason for me to buy parts to rebuild it and.. get an 15 HP engine in the same shipping.
I built the latter in the enfield and i noticed it sounds very different from the 10 and 13 HP versions.

I am planning to run it in reasonably carefull but.. the engine is quite lazy? I checked if there's some sort of blockage in the air filter, and set the governer fuel screw to 'smoking' but the 13 HP is a lot faster?

Maybe i have the bad luck of getting a chinese less-well built one? Or does it just need running in?
Are there more people with similar findings?

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:24 am

Update, fuel us running free to engine, adjsuted pump limitation screw so it smokes more, but still lacks a lot of power.
Also, cold start is very difficult, it needs 5 kicks at least to start, whereas the 13 HP engine was a single-kicker..
Anyone an idea, iám a bit worried..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by Diesel Dave » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:31 pm

Piston may have cracked, make a careful check of the combustion chamber.

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Within a few km's?
now about 200 km on iot, starting is still poor, (lack of compression with cold engine is a factor)
still lazy in 4th gear..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:59 pm

Big governer spring in the outer holes, limitation screw removed all together, still much less power then the 13 hp version..
Am i really the only one with this problem?
What am i doing wrong?>
It does nothing in 4th gear!

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:03 pm

Can you check the injector timing?

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:44 pm

I did, in contrary to the 13 hp engine i had, it seems to be okay.
Under load and revving it hammers loudly, but idling sounds almost like a petrol engine..

Also it seems tolack compression because the cold starting is terrible.
When warm it starts with a single kick.

An other fact; with the limitation screw removed, it still doens't smoke a lot so;
1 needs an even stronger/additional governer spring
2 fuel pump delivers not enough.
Contacted the seller if he encountered this before, says more or less no..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:36 pm

Today replaced the fuel pump (recieved an other one from the seller)
Idling is better but hardly any smoke whilst limitation screw totally removed and still much less power the the 456cc/13 hp engine...
What could be wrong with this engine?

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by Diesel Dave » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:22 pm

Well if it’s any consolation my 13hp (188 motor), is a lot less powerful than my 12hp Kubota. In fact I would rate it around the 10hp mark.

I think you can take chineesium Numbers with a large pinch of salt. (The horses being small and wheezy rather than large hairy hoofed dray horses).

That said, if it has larger capacity and the compression and fuel timing are correct then one would expect at list a minimal uplift in power.

So are you sure you haven’t had a Gypsy curse put on your bike? So far it has affected both the front brake and the engine; it’s only a matter of time before it attack’s you as you sleep in bed.....

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:29 pm

It is much lazier then the 13 hp, which i will rebuild and i hope i can get a normal warrantee settlement wirh the seller of the 15 hp engine.
And yes, i also think the chinese horses are very small, other yanclones wit the same amount of CC's are listed with less HP's..

The subframe mounting holes for the yanclone.. would that be a universal/stdt. configuration? (i mean, would an other brand plug & play?)

I can kill a chicken, pour the blood over it and dance around it naked.. (last time neighbours went complaining, so have to be carefull)

The front brake, yes it has to work and don't know how.. but first a normal working power source..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:37 am

The bolt holes down to the frame tend to be different between the manufacturers however the drive side bolt pattern is SAE.

I’m hitting the same problem fitting this...

Image

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:44 am

No answer or solution yet from the seller..maybe he alsi is thinking.. should i open the engine to see if there's something with the flywheight system or will that destroy warrantee?
I have the same fuel petcock (jawa) with which i could overfuel the 13 hp engine.. Cannot imagine it would be a problem with this engine?
i am hesitant to do even more investments while this not-so-cheap yanclone is the problem itself..
besides that, still front brake to think about, don't know how-to this anymore.

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by Diesel Dave » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:16 am

It’s the first 10 years (around 120,000 miles), that can be difficult.

You should find the following decade somewhat easier, things will become routine, (clutch rebuilds, wheel bearing replacements, steering bearings, tyres, chains, gearbox bearings etc etc etc).

At around 200,000 miles you should teach a zen like status of acceptance of ‘things as they are’, and then you can decide if a single cylinder engine in an Enfield chassis is what you really want.

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:23 am

i did almost any repair on the enfield and is no problem, i like the single diesel but it must work normally, i will rebuild the 13 hp engine and install this again.
Front brake; someone had a drum from a triump/bsa '68-70 for sale.. maybe i could make it fit but whe i was there, he wanted double the price he asked..
What did you do to make it brake?
Dutch traffic needs moderately working brakes at least..

I amreally thinking hard what i could have done wrong with this engine, 3rd in a row (form 418, 456 to this one) but i really don't know..

Tried a short ride whithout fuel filter/less restriction but no difference..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by boutje » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:27 am

Did you measure compression?

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:28 am

To honest, no because i'm hesitant to remove tje injector for 2 reasons, but if compression was bad, it should smoke under load.. which is does not..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:59 pm

Still haven't got a proposal or solution from the seller, is there anyone here who had a good functioning/performing 498CC yanclone?

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:26 pm

No one further with experience with the 192 '15'hp Winsun?

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:57 pm

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Could it be a matter of perception? The Winsun website lists the 192 at 8.2 kw, which is 11 hp. That figure is consistent with what you would expect when comparing it to the venerable 406cc 186F which is universally accepted to barely produce 9 hp. When you apply the same proportionate increase of power to the corresponding increase of displacement between the 406cc and the 498cc, you arrive at roughly 11 hp, not 15 hp. If we're expecting the grunt of 15 hp, the 11 hp would indeed feel lazy. I've also noticed that there are Chinese suppliers that rate the 192 at 20hp. A certain form of inflation I fear.

That said, it still doesn't explain why it feels lazier than your 13 hp did. And is your 13 hp the 456cc version?

http://wsdieselpower.com/1-1-single-cyl ... el-engine/
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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:39 am

Yes it is,(the 456 ill also not have 13 hp in reality i think) and the 192 engine does not smoke, even not ith the regulating scre removed.. so it does not get enough fuel.
Pump has been replaced, Could it be the injector?
I asked in vain the seller for a good/tested one to sap..
He claims i am the only one encounterung this problem.

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:58 am

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An injector swap is a reasonable consideration to further the process of elimination. Unfortunately, I suspect the 498 injector is sized to provide more fuel than your 456 cc engines injector, ruling out a simple swap. But then, maybe not. Have you done all you can to rule out timing as a contributor to the problem (i.e. removed shims to adjust timing)? Causes me to wonder if it could be related to the governors inability/failure to demand more fuel. That would be one more rule-out since it would be a simple swap-out from your 456 cc.

All this from someone who falls well short of being a diesel guru.
Ron
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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:33 am

The timing ismore or less okay, i checked it, but it does not smoke, it simply does not get enough fuel. The seller does not really offer a solution.. i'm stuck with a new, malfunctioning engine..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:25 pm

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I understand your reluctance to pull the injector. But given that you've ruled out most of the other usual suspects, it can't hurt. Simply swap in the one from your 456. And even if it's not sized for the increased displacement, improved starting would suggest it's injector related. Having the injector out would also allow for checking compression if you'd be so inclined. It would be sad to simply walk away from a new engine with that potential.
Ron
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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:10 am

Thanks for reply,but i do not know what kind of gasket this engine has, a copper ing-which you have to replace, or that teflon(?) sleeve you have to replace. Besides that there are several types of injectors, do nowt know if they are the same, and would have to swap engiens again to test.. not today..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:22 pm

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True, there are different injectors amongst the variations of the clones. However, I might think you stand a reasonable chance of having similar models between recent clones. And the Chinese do list them as the same injector.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32848558248.html (scroll down a bit for dimensions)

But, I don't believe the copper washer/spacer/seal requires replacement, does it? Even so, a required engine swap rules it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq6_bY5zfl8
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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:44 am

Well, i cannot see what kind of gasket is in, maybe a ring, maybe a teflon sleeve which damages when you pull one out.. My first yanclone had such a thing..
i proposed the seller to swap this engine for a tetsted and used one, but no reply..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:17 am

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Sadly known as "no service after the sale". I'm not familiar with the sleeved version as mine are all as depicted in the video. Which may be an older variation of what you've got. I'm afraid I'm not much help.
Ron
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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by arnaud » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:38 am

I did check the spill of the injector/how much it is spitting out to the return line..this was not muchor more with open throttle.
The seller claims to have sold many 192 engines for enfield riders.. I was hoping to find some of them here..

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by Michael Gilbert » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Hi, Have you checked that the valve (tappet) clearance is - Inlet 0.1 & ex 0.15. at TDC.(assuming its the same as the 188FB) If this is out it does definitely effect the performance. Also check that the de-compressor is fully releasing. Mine used to stick when it was new.

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Re: Lazy 15 HP yanclone?

Post by pietenpol2002 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:48 pm

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Have you chatted with Henry over at Priceparts? As he's now offering the 498cc option, he may have some thoughts about that engine.
Ron
Goshen, IN USA

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